2009 Swivel & donkey dick.

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The 09 bar doesnt seem to be much improvment as I have 2 issues.

1) The donkey dick falls outs at least once per session - I cant quite work out why it is doing this I think it may be too long? I compared it to the 08 bar and it seems the same length. I will measure them to confirm.

2) The new Swivel. After doing backrolls / rotations and untwisting the lines sometimes the swivel wont swivel. I have to stop and give it a jerk and twist to get it swiveling again.

Anyone else had any of the above problems / solutions?


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Had the DD come out once, don’t know how it came, thought i forgot to put it right.. looks like it can come out.. will pay attention next session.
No problems with rotations.
Try frontrolls next time.. wink
Regards,
Arjan


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Sounds like the filling in the donkey dick has fallen out. Have a look and see if it’s hollow.

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My DD is hollow.. from the start, looks normal but I’ll see your point, it is flexy…


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I have not had any issues with my dick. Never had it fall out once. Noticeably longer than last year.

As for the swivel nothing untoward to report at this time.

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andy

Dorset UK


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andy - 22 February 2009 09:27 PM

I have not had any issues with my dick. Never had it fall out once. Noticeably longer than last year.

As for the swivel nothing untoward to report at this time.

Andy,
we, I mean I have no problem with my dick.. never falls out.. and still same length as last year..
Did you need the surgery?
Regards,
Arjan

Ps, Sorry, open goal.. wink


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mine is hollow, i was thinking of jamming some plastic dow stuff in there make it really stiff.


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I just cruise around with mine hanging out all of the time anyway!

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Janus - 22 February 2009 09:36 PM
andy - 22 February 2009 09:27 PM

I have not had any issues with my dick. Never had it fall out once. Noticeably longer than last year.

As for the swivel nothing untoward to report at this time.

Andy,
we, I mean I have no problem with my dick.. never falls out.. and still same length as last year..
Did you need the surgery?
Regards,
Arjan

Ps, Sorry, open goal.. wink

Arjan….
Shame on you…..hahhaha good one!!


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Kitejunkiee - 22 February 2009 11:55 PM

mine is hollow, i was thinking of jamming some plastic dow stuff in there make it really stiff.

LOL

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andy

Dorset UK


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hmmm,

i know the older bars had a filling in the Donkey Dick to keep it rigid. see if you can stuff it thne melt the end so it stays hard.

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Please be VERY careful if you intend to modify the donkey dick with any form of “stiffener”.
We’ve tested this here at OR with terrible results.
Stiff Tips or sections on the donkey dick may bind/catch in the harness hook as it attempts to slide out of the enclosed harness hook. (this may happen when you activate your chicken loop quick release.)


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The issue is likely with your harness hook. Some are more open than others, and as such can be prone to both the dick (and subsequently) the chicken loop popping out. Make sure it’s not stone cold, and then clamp it in a vice to close it up a bit.

With regards to the swivel, yours may need some lube, as in general the ‘09 swivel works very well in my own experience and from what I have observed.

I am testing this stuff out for sailing applications, and will also give it a go on the trim line and swivel to see if there is any benefit.

http://www.mclubemarine.com/sailkote/

Cheers,

Evan

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on the swivel mclube works a treat.. ive used it for a while.. also on my pullies. and spray on silicon lubricant will do the some job for cheaper also.

as for the donkey dick… my usual chicken loop doesnt even have one wink  cut the bugger off!

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Richard Myerscough - 23 February 2009 06:33 PM

Please be VERY careful if you intend to modify the donkey dick with any form of “stiffener”.
We’ve tested this here at OR with terrible results.
Stiff Tips or sections on the donkey dick may bind/catch in the harness hook as it attempts to slide out of the enclosed harness hook. (this may happen when you activate your chicken loop quick release.)

Richard are you saying the stiffener can impair the Quick Release action? Tricky!

Crew stop hiding your copy of the Penthouse Xmas edition in the bar pocket!


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Hi Kitejunkiee,
I got the same problems, wil post in my post..
Regards,
Arjan


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andy - 22 February 2009 09:27 PM

I have not had any issues with my dick. Never had it fall out once. Noticeably longer than last year.

As for the swivel nothing untoward to report at this time.

oh boy big surprise  andy your right it is slightly larger then last yr   - try taking the elastic band off the end

harry.allerston - 24 February 2009 03:12 PM

as for the donkey dick…  wink  cut the bugger off!

i dont think andy could apparently he usually mistakes his bobby stick for something else….

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sorry that was out of line

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grin Where’s my package then Brian? Still not arrived!

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andy

Dorset UK


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ohh

hmmmm thats not good

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Here is a safety issue with the 09 bar. If your kite goes down in the water and a steering line wraps around the bar, when you relaunch the kite( yes the kite will relaunch like this.It’s happened to me 3 times with me relauching the kite and the kite relauching itself.)the chicken loop snugs up super tight to the bar.The quick release will not release .This happened with the 08 bar as well but at least you can peel the velcro off in a panic and release from the loop.Not so with the 09 bar.the only way out is to unhook the donkey and unhook the loop.This happened to me last week. Has anybody else had this happen or am I the only lucky one.I think this is a serious safety issue which I think will occer more and more as riders use the bar this season .One time the kite relaunched by itself with a steering line wrapped.I looked at other bars IE the North which has a simular release but the distance the release cuff has to travel is only about 1 cm as compared to 6cm on the OR bar. I successfully released the north bar under load but found it impossible with our OR bar.So far I prefer the 08 system. I didn’t think changing the old system was a great idea unless the new system was tested for these types of problems.If someone has a solution other than not dumping your kite in the water I would love to here about it.Dean


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Hi Dean,

Sorry, but I don’t understand how this happens and have neither experienced it myself nor heard of a single instance of it from anyone other than yourself. Perhaps you can clarify so we can better understand what is happening?

1) How does your steering line become wrapped around the bar? It is possible to get caught on the end (if your lines go slack) but we’re only talking about shortening up the line by a couple of inches - not enough for the kite to relaunch without the kiter intending it to, and it’s typically easy to fix that quickly with one quick tug to free it up.

2) Even if #1 does take place, you can still let go or sheet out the bar, and assuming you are hooked in you can push the eject cuff to release. The only way this would not be possible is if you are riding with the stopper pulled down to the very bottom of the trim line, which is neither recommended or of any advantage in any circumstance.

Cheers,

Evan

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Hi Evan,
When your kite is in the water and you trying to relaunch you pull on a steering line and point the bar.I think it has happened when I’ve made an unsuccessful relaunch attempt and let go of the steering line which has now lots of slack it can wrap easily. Thinking back on the events I also the trim line is wrapped as well as the steering line so you can’t push the bar out at all.I’m not making this up nor am I a beginer kiter.It’s happened 3 times all of which have been some of the scariest moments of my kiting career. This can happen with any bar.I’m saying I like the old velcro system as it gives you another way out. Hope that clarifies it a bit.Dean


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Hi Dean,
Thanks for sharing your concern.
For relaunching of SLE kites in general, the bar needs to be pushed out a lot. In light winds only, it helps to pull on one back line. When you do that, you can extend your arm sideways in order to pull the upper tip of the kite back, in order to assist the kite in standing on its side for launching. This way, if you let go of the back line, it won’t wrap around the bar. Try to keep tension on the lines as much as possible. If the wind is so low you can’t relaunch, it’s probably better to take a break too.

Having the back line wrapped around the bar is nasty but as Evan points out, it shouldn’t launch or loop the kite as letting the bar go it auto-balances the back lines and lets the kite fly normal. Wrapping the trim loop around the bar with the QR cuff against it is something else, I can imagine this could somehow occur when it gets gnarly, like no wind and large swell wipe outs.

I will look into this closely and discuss it inside the R&D team.


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Thanks for the replies.I thought about this more and it is “definately” the trimloop which gets wrapped not the steering line making it very hard or impossible to release.
  Set your bar up as you would to check your line lengths. Hook in ,wrap the trim line around.Lean back and tension the lines.Now try releasing the cuff.I think you will see what I mean.
  At least with the velcro closure you can peel it off and escape.Other than that I love the bar.I’ve been riding and selling OR gear for the past 7 years.That’s it.
  happy riding!!! grin Dean


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Hi Dean,

I wasn’t suggest you were making it up, just trying to get an idea of how or what you were doing to get these wraps. Now that you have clarified, my inclination is that you are pulling in way more line than you need to, and as such ending up with a bunch of slack line when you let go. As Rudo mentions, the easiest and most efficient way to relaunch an SLE is to let the bar sheet out as much as possible. I let my bar out all the way to my stopper (which I set at about an arm’s length). At this point if it’s blowing hard, the kite will begin to relaunch itself - if the wind is lighter or the kite has not started to rotate I pull in on a steering line, but no more than what I can reach with one big pull - perhaps a 18” at most.  Pulling anymore than that invites problems and won’t give you any advantage.  If this isn’t working then the wind is too light, and you should coax the kite partially onto it’s back with a few strokes (old skool C kite style) before pulling an outside line.

In general, letting any of your lines go slack (especially to the point where they can wrap) is inviting trouble, and in the case of an SLE, is counter to what you want to do relaunch the kite. Granted it can happen in large surf and light wind, and is sometimes unavoidable.

Thanks for your feedback!

Cheers,

Evan


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Dean - 07 April 2009 02:45 PM

Thanks for the replies.I thought about this more and it is “definately” the trimloop which gets wrapped not the steering line making it very hard or impossible to release.
  Set your bar up as you would to check your line lengths. Hook in ,wrap the trim line around.Lean back and tension the lines.Now try releasing the cuff.I think you will see what I mean.
  At least with the velcro closure you can peel it off and escape.Other than that I love the bar.I’ve been riding and selling OR gear for the past 7 years.That’s it.
  happy riding!!! grin Dean

Hi Dean,
I find it very hard to imagine what happens, can you draw it or make a picture?
Thx,
Arjan


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I have had the same problem as Dean with the 08 bar and released with the velcro.  In my case I got rolled in the surf and the lines got wrapped.  It can also happen if you down loop the kite as you are turning towards it, dump the kite and over shoot your lines.


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Thanks for all the tips on how to launch the kite.There are some great points there. One of my incidents happened in mid sized surf where i was tumbled toward the kite,once was in light wind where I made the mistake of allowing too much slack while relaunching, the other was in high wind where the kite relaunched itself after a wipeout toward the kite so you can see the wrapping can happen in all conditions. Because the SLE kites relaunch easily they will relaunch even with the TL wrapped. So if you ride in the surf a lot ,are learning new tricks where your crashing you kite or a newbie learning the potential exists at all levels.
  Not to be promoting the north bar but if you check out their chicken loop you will see that the it cannot become totally snug against the bar which allows it to release .I’m sure they engineered it this way for this reason.Dean


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Lots of talk about dicks—I’m getting scared—have I just entered an aol chat room?


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Agreed, way too much talk about dick here….....

We certainly do not want to be taking our cues from the North bar…..that ” micro loop ’ thing is very dangerous. That is a weak attempt at mitigating complaints of excess bar pressure. We witnessed a serious accident in Ventana in which the rider accidentally hooked into it and powered up the kite. Multiple broken bones, facial injuries etc etc. There is also a report of a kiter losing his leg due to a similar incident, and this bar is the subject of a current post on KF.

Our bar is very simple, functional, reliable, serviceable and safe. Sure, wraps of varying sorts are possible, but it’s just the nature of our sport. We can’t engineer against all possible cases of pilot error, just as ABS, traction control, stability control, sensors etc etc are never going to prevent all car accidents.

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EvanStolze - 09 April 2009 03:35 AM

We can’t engineer against all possible cases of pilot error, just as ABS, traction control, stability control, sensors etc etc are never going to prevent all car accidents.

I couldn’t agree more.


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Kitejunkiee,

I can confirm the problem that you experience with the donkey dick and the swivel. Went out at OB last weekend and just as I was powering up, the chicken loop popped out. Not funny, and also not the first time it happened, I was thinking about maybe the harnest loop is too small, but I rode the harnest last season on a different kite brand and never had this problem. As for the swivel, I have to turn and pull on the center line to make it move, will try some lube, but I doubt that helps


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Andrea, any chance you have a Mystic harness? They have a very ” open ” spreader hook which ” encourages ” the chicken loop to pop out. Two possible solutions. 1) Bend the hook closed in a vice. 2) Get a proper hook, like the one that come with the Session harness…..smile . I’ve got almost 1000 sessions on mine and have never had my chicken loop unhook accidentally.

If you have the ‘09 bar, you can change the chicken loop to a larger size, though I don’t see that as the issue.

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Evan,

Thanks for the hint, yes, I’m riding a Mystic firestarter and I use a ‘09 bar. The hook is smaller compared to other ones, maybe I look into a different spreader bar unless you can convince me on that session harnest smile
On a different note, my (brand new) 8m just ripped apart at a seam that’s not stiched rather than only glued, nice clean rip all the way from the the edge to the end.
Not sure if you are the right peron to talk to or if I should just send it back to OR directly?


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Andreas,

Yes, I would change out the hook or replace the harness, as from what I’ve observed it’s an issue with the Mystic hook.

Yes, I’m fully aware of the damage to your kite. There was plenty of talk about the severe pounding it took when you hammered it into the beach at OB…:). Since it’s not a warranty issue the choice us up to you, but there are two easy options. 1) Sonny at 3rd - I don’t have his info but you can probably find it on BAK, and 2) Airtime in the Gorge. http://www.airtimekite.com/map_standard.html

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The kite went down when the chicken loop popped out, at that time there was no damage to the kite, that happend later.
It’s a clean cut at the seam, you can actually see where it’s glued, I think these seams should be stiched instead on my 10, they are stiched, I got this one later


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Yes, I am familiar with what happened, as the crash on the beach that split it open was viewed by several team riders and one of our retailers. They also mentioned you crashed it repeatedly in the surf prior to the one on the beach that caused the split. If you feel it is a legitimate warranty claim please email me detailed photos of the damage along with the serial number of the kite.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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Just to clear this up, as I know how these stories develop over time…On the first tack the chicken loop popped out while I was only a few meters away from shore and the kite came down. I didn’t crash it into the surf at all after that. 10minutes later it ripped while I made a turn, close enough to shore so I was able to land it on the beach.
I’ll be happy to send you a pic or meet you somewhere and show it you and you can decide if this is a quality issue or not.
My opinion is, a seam in the middle of the canopy should be stiched not only glued, especially on a kite that you take out when it’s really blowing.


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To clear up my end, it’s not a story that ” developed over time “. I was informed about it shortly after it happened directly by those who saw it take place.  As I said earlier, if you think it is a legitimate warranty issue than please email me the photos so I can pass them on to our warranty department.  As the expression goes, ” the proof is in the pudding “.

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In regards to the chicken loop coming out, mine fixed itself. I now know the problem. Over time the donkey dick has gotten less rigid and has more flex. Before it was too rigid so it would hit the harness and push itself out. I havent had a problem for a while now, just took a few sessions to get it more flexible!


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EvanStolze - 23 February 2009 08:53 PM

The issue is likely with your harness hook. Some are more open than others, and as such can be prone to both the dick (and subsequently) the chicken loop popping out. Make sure it’s not stone cold, and then clamp it in a vice to close it up a bit.

With regards to the swivel, yours may need some lube, as in general the ‘09 swivel works very well in my own experience and from what I have observed.

I am testing this stuff out for sailing applications, and will also give it a go on the trim line and swivel to see if there is any benefit.

http://www.mclubemarine.com/sailkote/

Cheers,

Evan

Please let us know how Sailkote perfoms on the trim line versus wax. Thx.


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I’ve never bothered with wax, as I get 75 to 100 sessions with a single trim line anyway and it takes me less than five minutes to replace it with a new one. With two bars in the rotation, that basically means I kite an entire season (250 sessions or so) spending about ten minutes on gear maintenance - I can live with that….smile

Sailkote does prevent sand from sticking to the trim line but I dunk my bar the minute I get in the water anyway, and it seems to wear off quickly. I wouldn’t bother with it.

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2) The new Swivel. After doing backrolls / rotations and untwisting the lines sometimes the swivel wont swivel. I have to stop and give it a jerk and twist to get it swiveling again.

I have the same problem with the swivel, too. It´s really anoying.

Will there be new swivels with better performance/quality ??


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spumoni - 19 July 2009 01:20 PM

2) The new Swivel. After doing backrolls / rotations and untwisting the lines sometimes the swivel wont swivel. I have to stop and give it a jerk and twist to get it swiveling again.

I have the same problem with the swivel, too. It´s really anoying.

Will there be new swivels with better performance/quality ??

Yes, here’s a quick look at the new 2010 bar and swivel.

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