Hi ive had two fun surf sessions on my new Rise 8m. Kite flew great right out of the box but i could use some help dialing it in for surf
Conditions: 20-25 mph side-on, gusty
surf: 3-5’ mushy
Weight: 125 Lbs.
Board: my trusty 5’6” North RocketFish
harness: hooked in waste
1. Kite has Hindenburged twice while parking the kite overhead to pull the depower cleat. After the hindenburging the relaunch in 3-5 surf was outstanding! ive been kitesurfing on waves for a about three years but ive never experienced a hindenburg in winds this high….did i have it too overpowered?
2. bar pressure is much lighter than im used to. this could be my recent switch to waist harness. but is there a way i can increase it?
3. best way to switch leash from suicide to self landing while out kitesurfing?
4. what bridal positions are everyone using for hooked-in surf? un-hooked surf?
1st of all, welcome to the crew! Great to hear you had good fun with the 8m. Let me try to answer some of your questions.
the 1st question, it seems to depend on what kite you’re coming from, some riders have the tendency to pull the bar up to a bar pressure they’re used to. It could very well be you have overpowered the kite. Due to the venturi system on these kites, you actually can fly with it overpowered, as it won’t stall that quick. The venturi system keeps the kite from stalling but it needs flow going on around it. Meaning, if you’re not going fast, keep the kite going by sinussing it. The Venturi is useless if the flow stops, meaning you’re way overpowered compared to other kites and there won’t be any reason for the kite to stay flying. Immediate depowering will help sometimes.
Here’s my little tip: Try to push the bar away from you until the power drops (coming from overpowered), “listen” to the pull on your harness. Pushing out the bar, you may actually experience an increase of pull. Once the pull drops, build up bar pressure to the point where you have the most pull. Once you’ve got this working, you’ll be one of the fastest riders on the water, you’ll be passing other riders upwind from them, great fun. And you won’t have any hindenburging.
I’m totally into the SLE riding style like this, sail that kite!
2nd, I don’t think the harness plays a role here. The rises have a really nice & moderate bar pressure, which can be tuned a bit with the bridle points.
3rd, self-landing from the leash I have no experience with but there is this re-ride handle above the swivel, if you pull the top front line in when the kite is at the edge of the wind window (one tip on the beach), and take a few steps towards the kite, you should be able to self-land it. If the kite bounces, get some tension on the lines and push out the stopper (if it’s too close), pus the bar out as far as you can and try to steer the kite to the side. If you used the re-ride option, it will just slide back in place. Always take care you have plenty of space downwind from you when attempting self-landing.
4 this is very personal, I fly factory, little bit more work but best bar feedback for me (98kg)
What setting do you have your bridal on ?
Is this a 2008 Rise 8M ?
I have the exact same problem in the surf first time out. I have never had a small kite hindunberg so many times like this 8M.
My 12M never does this.
I am still tuning it and I think setting 2 works best, this is where both fron and back lines are inward setting.
For surf, first thing you do is ditch the 3m extensions.
You can get more bar pressure by simply moving your front bridle to the attachment most to the front on the LE. This setting provides a well balanced bar pressure, really good feedback and you also get more depower out of a shorter bar throw in this setting. This means you can set the stopper relatively close which I find perfect when riding waves. For surf of course you want the back lines furthest back on the wingtip for quick turning.
Hindenburging??? a 8m Rise. what the hell are you guys doing? I have no clue how to resolve this as I never experience this myself. Might be because it was crazy gusty maybe? Even while riding down the line towards the kite it will not drop forward out of the sky.
Just to make sure: I assume by hindenburging you mean lines go slack and kite falling LE down. So this can not be caused by flying the kite oversheeted as this would lead to stalling/flying backwards. One tip: NEVER pull depower when kite is at 12. The sudden change in AOA might cause any SLE kite to hindenberg.
I did have my 3M extensions off and I agree this is the way to go in the surf.
For me I was on my 12M all week and then went to the 8M on a high wind day and it might have been just the very fast (compared to the 12M) flying of the 8M, I might have just wanked on the bar too quick.
As far as a setting to increase turning speed seems to be bad for me, this bugger is fast enough on even the factory setting.
Might just be the getting used to the kite at this point and with the stopper closer it means you will have a more constant pressure on the bar and less throw which will make it harder to hinden….
I just got back from Barbados and used my 8M in the surf for almost a week. I weigh 135 lbs and flew my kite in similar wind conditions. To answer your questions: 1. Almost all kites will fall out of the sky when given a quick and long enough yank on the flying lines (front lines), then slacking the lines. I depowered my 8M on accident running up the beach and stopping to fast. My bad, wasn’t the kites fault. Try and adjust the trim with the kite on the side of the wind window. This will prevent you from slackening the lines and overflying the kite.
2. There is a little more bar pressure in the more depower setting. I’m now flying my kites in the more depower and faster turning setting. 3. If you have an 09 bar, keep the leash attached to the depower ring above the chicken loop and land the kite like El Rudo suggested. This technique works almost every time. Just make sure you have a safe area to land in and are prepared to launch or eject the kite if necessary for safety.
I hope this helps.
Aloha! Jeff Rockett, , All over the world!
Just a thought, as the 8m is relatively heavy it will have it’s point of gravity closer to the LE, which might make it more prone to nose-diving than larger kites.
I need to be educated on this as I don’t know for sure if the smaller kites use lighter fabric or not.
Can you define Hindenburging? If it’s just falling from the sky because of stalling or nose-diving - I think we need a good name for this as I don’t think you actually inflated the kite with hydrogen and lit it.
I agree. Basically what happens is the LEI of the kite is yanked down by pulling on the flying lines, removing all lift from the kite. Once the lines are slacked and there is no longer any lift, the kite starts to drop out of the sky LEI first. It seems like they kind of slowly spiral or half spiral to the water like an old airship falling out of the sky. Thats where the Hindenburg analogy comes from.
I’m not sure if the smaller kites are made of lighter fabric or not. They don’t appear to be, but who knows. Another thing to remember is ORs are built a little more heavy duty compared to most kites. In my eyes this is a major plus, but it also may make them a little more prone to such incidents. Again just speculation.
Aloha! Jeff Rockett, , All over the world!
Hindenburging is a pretty established name in kiting and once you do it, you know exactly what we mean.
The kite can sometimes even hit you, so it is not a fun thing to do or very safe in anyway.
Powering up by the kite right before it hits the water is common also and can lead to line breaks or kite rips..
Good call on keeping the kite to the side of the window when adjusting the power strap or putting on a board etc..
It seesm like Hindenburging happens easiest when the kite is overhead.
I agree. Basically what happens is the LEI of the kite is yanked down by pulling on the flying lines, removing all lift from the kite. Once the lines are slacked and there is no longer any lift, the kite starts to drop out of the sky LEI first.
Now i know what was happening. i had the stopper all the way up, with kite at 12, i let go of the bar to pull the depower, the bar slid all the way up and a lull occured causing it all to hindenburg. coming from an old GK Sonic i never used the stopper (is crap). Now that i have a good stopper to use ill try this when depowering with the kite more to the side instead of 12. Or depower while riding which is tricky for me on these under the bar depower cleats.
Its interesting, i think because of the Venturi vents i can power the shit out of the kite while riding a wave downwind with no backstalling… something i couldnt do on my 07’ waroo 7m or 06’ GK Sonic 11m
thanks to all for the kind welcome and advise!
Now i know what was happening. i had the stopper all the way up, with kite at 12, i let go of the bar to pull the depower, the bar slid all the way up and a lull occured causing it all to hindenburg.
There you go . The SLE bar has a massive amount of travel. With the stopper all the way up and letting go of the bar, the kite is designed to drop from the sky. Always set your stopper around halfway and depower your kite while having it at 10.
@ Rudo…. If you would built smaller kites out of lighter fabric these will become:
1.) Even faster (too fast?)
2.) Less bomb proof to survive strong winds
I like to leave my stopper way up , so that If I let go of the bar the kite Hindenburgs ... I adjust my trim @ the clean by easing the bar away from me ... I never let go of the bar to trim ... When I let go of the bar I want total depower !!!
Big Wave Dave your one stop weather site for S. Van. Island…
I think you are probably riding to big of a kite. If you are getting 20 to 25 and riding your surfboard very often you would really love the 6m. there is not much reason for the bar to ever slide past 2/3rds up the depower rope since you already reached max depower at this point on the smaller kites.
I do suggest using the new 09 adjustable stopper, 3rd click i think so it slides away really easy still if you need it.
Also for in the surf definately use the new attachment points, take much less throw for complete depower. bit more bar preasure but works awesome.
I agree with all above and love the fact that the Crew’s stepped up and been so helpful lately on this forum. If you want to jump to the 09 sliding stopper as Stefaans suggested it would allow you to set the amount of pressure required to move the stopper. I find the 3rd setting is the best as it is plenty stiff enough to spin the bar out or relax the arms a bit but is super simple to slide out of the way with a hard push on the bar…