Rise: what to do in extreme windgusts?

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Joined 2007-07-19

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Hi!
Question… what is the best way to act if you find yourself on the water and you didn’t see a squall line or other storm coming and the wind suddenly gusts far beyond the limits of your kite?
With a 5 line kite you would pull the safety and the upside-down fluttering kite would hopefully have not enough power anymore to drag you, otherwise you release it completely, or probably the kite would shred to pieces on it’s 5th. Other kites with and o-shit handle safety will probably flag out.
But how will the Rise behave with it’s two front lines as safety? When you let go of the bar, it will depower, but when you pull the safety, how much drag will there be left? Is there any chance of the kite starting a screwdriver? And I’m talking 100 km/h winds, when the kite will not just stay on the water. In these extreme conditions should I release it completely or should I first try the safety and see what happens?
What is your advice and has anyone got some experience with this? Happened here in Holland not long ago (glad I wasn’t on the water), one kiter didn’t survive, and it got me wondering…
I love my 2007 Rises, so it’s just to know what to do. I trust them a lot!


Total Posts: 574

Joined 2006-10-06

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Hi Jelte

Firstly - always be on the look out for a dramatic change in conditions!

Normally there would be plenty of de power in the Rise SLE bar to ride out an average gust.

In the scenario you describe let go of the bar and then release your safety leash. Reach up and grab the handle (O shit handle) connected to one of your front lines. Pull on this and then release your chicken loop. The kite will flag out onto one front line with little to no power. This is the only way to safely kill the power of the SLE kite.

If you release the bar and stay connected to your safety leash then the kite could quite possibly start doing the death spiral that you so rightly describe as the screwdriver effect! Happened to me on a rare invert once. Lesson there - Pump the kite up harder!

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andy

Dorset UK


Total Posts: 40

Joined 2007-07-19

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Well, I can’t remember seeing any o-shit handles on the SLE bar… one of the reasons for my question. There is off course the ring in the center (or the option to hook your leash to the depower cord on my 2007 bar, but this will still result in the kite flagging out on the 2 front lines, right?


Total Posts: 66

Joined 2008-05-13

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Hi,
I beleive that 2007 bar did not have a o-shit handle. But you have the possibility to instal the leash on one front line. So first safety is letting go of the bar and the second safety is disconecting the chicken loop, so the kite is conected to you on only one front line. That is the setup i am using on my Rises. And yes - my stopper is always so far up that when I release the bar the kite lets out allmost all power. Some do not like the leash on one front line since it wraps arround when doing rotations, but have a rotating harness hook, so I do not have this problem.
Greetings,
Jaros


Total Posts: 40

Joined 2007-07-19

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Hi Jaros,

Right, I remember the possibility to put your leash to something in front of the stopperball. I have to lengthen my leash then. Would not be ideal, but would be a possibility when you’re not really sure of the wind conditions (gusty or prediction of storms). How does this work with the 2009 bar? Is the safety still on 2 powerlines with the possibility of hooking in the leash on one powerline? And does it have an o-shit handle? Was planning to go over to 2009 Rise anyway…
might as well change the bar.


Total Posts: 66

Joined 2008-05-13

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Hi Jelte,
I have 2008 bar and the 2009 bar is the same in this regard. Both have o-shit handle and this is the spot where you connect the leash. Yes, you have to lenghten the leash a little. If I remember right also the 2007 bar has a black ball on one front line that goes trough a ring. You can attach the leash on that ball.
I startet yousing this setup from the day my depower rope broke, and I was lucky that the wind was light so the bar was not ripped out of my hand. If you have the “normal” setup your kite is gone, but if you use the one front line safety the kite stays attached to you. My setup works great for me but I never ride unhooked and never ride with the bar sitting at the stopper ball, so maybe this is why.
Greetings,
Jaros


Total Posts: 574

Joined 2006-10-06

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jaroskiter - 15 May 2009 05:29 AM

Hi,
I beleive that 2007 bar did not have a o-shit handle. But you have the possibility to instal the leash on one front line. So first safety is letting go of the bar and the second safety is disconecting the chicken loop, so the kite is conected to you on only one front line. That is the setup i am using on my Rises. And yes - my stopper is always so far up that when I release the bar the kite lets out allmost all power. Some do not like the leash on one front line since it wraps arround when doing rotations, but have a rotating harness hook, so I do not have this problem.
Greetings,
Jaros

Yes. What Jaros has posted is exactly right. Leashing off one of the front lines will kill the power of the kite as it will flag out when you let go of the bar completely ie. letting go of bar and releasing chicken loop. However I think the majority of riders will leash off of their trim loop ‘D’ ring to save the safety leash wrapping around the trim line during rotations. Don’t think the rotating harness hook is that widely used-certainly haven’t come accross one here in the UK.

You could make a handle to attach to the attachment point at the point where the front lines aatach to the swivel. Alternatively if you contact Ocean Rodeo direct I’m sure that they will be able to sort you out with a handle for your ‘07 bar.

The only safe way to kill the power on any kite is to flag it out on one line. For an SLE kite that means flagging it out on one front line.

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andy

Dorset UK


Total Posts: 66

Joined 2008-05-13

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In the scenario you describe let go of the bar and then release your safety leash. Reach up and grab the handle (O shit handle) connected to one of your front lines. Pull on this and then release your chicken loop. The kite will flag out onto one front line with little to no power. This is the only way to safely kill the power of the SLE kite.

Hi Andy,
Is it possible to reach the o shit handle after leting go of the bar in extreme gust? Or is it to far away so you have to grab the depower line and pull the kite closser - what I believe is impossible in extreme winds?
Greetings,
Jaros


Total Posts: 66

Joined 2008-05-13

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Don’t think the rotating harness hook is that widely used-certainly haven’t come accross one here in the UK.

Peter Lynn is producing a spinning spreader bar for the harness that I am using.
Greetings,
Jaros


Total Posts: 574

Joined 2006-10-06

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jaroskiter - 15 May 2009 08:57 AM

In the scenario you describe let go of the bar and then release your safety leash. Reach up and grab the handle (O shit handle) connected to one of your front lines. Pull on this and then release your chicken loop. The kite will flag out onto one front line with little to no power. This is the only way to safely kill the power of the SLE kite.

Hi Andy,
Is it possible to reach the o shit handle after leting go of the bar in extreme gust? Or is it to far away so you have to grab the depower line and pull the kite closser - what I believe is impossible in extreme winds?
Greetings,
Jaros

Yes it is possible but no doubt not always easy. I hope that other crew members will chime in here with their thoughts. After all it is an important issue for us all!

Anyhows signing off now as I’m off kiting wink

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andy

Dorset UK


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Total Posts: 349

Joined 2007-01-03

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ok, i have a fair bit of experience with this as i ride my 10 in everything and genuinely had it out in averaging 30kts (gusts a tiny bit above) last week. with about a foot of trim in, keep the kite low ( as in nearly skimming the water) and hold the bar in. it may sound counterintuitive but as soon as i let the bar out she rockets forwards in the window and the apparent hits you like a truck. so in those conditions (flat water at least) i found it LESS powerful with the bar in at that kind of wind. i also found that you can point RIDICULOUSLY high upwind when that powered with the bar in. settings on the forwards on the front and furthest back on the back lines works best in this as it depowers in a shorter throw so you can keep a good solid stance. as soon as you ride ‘poo style’ youre screwed and are going to skim off downwind. stance is mega important, just lock out that back leg, twist the hips and go!  jumping is INSANE when that powered as long as you ride into the run up slow, crank the end of the bar to compensate for the large amount of trim in so you can get some speed into the kite still, wang it and edge and check out the scenery! 

i LOVE that thing when its maxed.. and the 129 zen is a beast combined with it. :D

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Tech Rep, Southern UK.

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Total Posts: 40

Joined 2007-07-19

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There was a new 10m Rise and a bar planned for this season. That way my wife can try kiting too… with the 2007 bar off course wink


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Total Posts: 434

Joined 2006-01-11

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I’d glance downwind and then cut my cut loose if I got caught in 100km/hour+ wind…..no matter what kite I had or what safety set up I was using. In this much wind the drag on a kite alone would be insane. I’ve never been caught out kiting in that much wind but was once out on a 25 sailboat in that much wind. The windage from the mast alone was enough to lay the boat over on it’s side. The only option we had was to run with bare poles before the wind.

Best defense here is a good offense. Squally weather is typically forecast (as it was in our case on the boat, our mistake) and very easy to spot coming. Get the kite down as soon as you see the black line/clouds charging towards you….

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Total Posts: 295

Joined 2008-04-20

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EvanStolze - 15 May 2009 07:57 PM

I’d glance downwind and then cut my cut loose if I got caught in 100km/hour+ wind…..no matter what kite I had or what safety set up I was using. In this much wind the drag on a kite alone would be insane. I’ve never been caught out kiting in that much wind but was once out on a 25 sailboat in that much wind. The windage from the mast alone was enough to lay the boat over on it’s side. The only option we had was to run with bare poles before the wind.

Best defense here is a good offense. Squally weather is typically forecast (as it was in our case on the boat, our mistake) and very easy to spot coming. Get the kite down as soon as you see the black line/clouds charging towards you….

Totally agree.
But not with every kite.. Rise 2,3,4m ..  cool smile
Just kidding.

In certain conditions you got to keep your eye on the sky.


Total Posts: 40

Joined 2007-07-19

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True, though I had a weird session not long ago when after the dark clouds the wind in sunny conditions suddenly picked up. Gusts went from a maximum of 30 up to 36+ without a warning. And though I’m not a very good kiter, I am very experienced in spotting the weather. Didn’t see it coming, wasn’t forecasted. I could just hold my 8m Rise and land it safely, but I would probably have pulled the safety if I would’ve known for sure that the leash would depower the kite completely.
I saw some pictures from before the accident I talked about and as far as I could see there were not a lot of signs for somebody who is not really experienced in reading the weather. That’s why I thought I should make up my mind on how to handle in extreme conditions. 99 out of 100 times you can see it coming, but it’s the 1 time that you don’t when it’s nice to know what to do.


Total Posts: 6

Joined 2009-05-14

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Hi,
Would it be possible for someone from Ocean Rodeo to give us a demo for the new 2009 kites on what
to do in this situation? I dont even know where/what the O-Shit handle is… I see that Ozone have no
problem supplying this useful info, I would hope Ocean Rodeo could do the same…
Cheers
K


Total Posts: 10

Joined 2009-04-11

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Hi Jelte.. only one solution possible… like evan says ” Cut yourselve loose from the kite” . Flagging is not an option in 100 km p/h gusts. Try an umbrella in the next storm at Terschellings and see what happens to it!


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Total Posts: 349

Joined 2007-01-03

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ah didnt read the 100km/h bit. wink

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Tech Rep, Southern UK.

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Total Posts: 46

Joined 2008-10-02

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In 100 KM/H winds or whenever you feel yourself in eminent chance of injury, cut the kite loose. Your life and health are worth far more than a kite. In lighter squalls try and safely land your kite well in advance of the squall. If it’s not possible to safely land before the squall arrives, stay out on the water away from land or any hard obstacles. My technique for riding out small squalls/wind gusts, which I also recommend to my students, is to bring the kite close to the water at the edge of the wind window and edge upwind as much as possible. Keeping the kite low and edging the board hard upwind will allow you to greatly slow your forward speed and help prevent you from getting lofted.

The Rise is one of the strongest, best depowering, and stablest kites I’ve flown. This being said, riding a Rise doesn’t excuse any of us from paying attention to weather conditions, knowing how to use our safety systems, and having a good out strategy.

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Aloha! Jeff Rockett, , All over the world!


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Total Posts: 517

Joined 2008-04-13

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Jeff I can attest to that. May 8th was a weird day and as you may have read a very dangerous one as well in Holland. I was going to try to set my speed record, strapped on the GPS and launched the 8m rise in 35+knots. I rode out to the strip, accelerated and somehow had my back foot slip out of the strap.
I crashed in a stupid fashion, and felt my front cruciate ligaments go elastic. Sitting there in pain, I was most worried about the kite and the gust that were picking up to 45 knots and up. I decided to not let it go as there where people downwind and there was no real need anyway. Keeping the kite low in the corner of the wind window, bouncing up and down on the water, it was just cool. I could hold the bar with one hand and signal for some help. I could even let the bar go (I set the stopper so that the kite is still maneuverable, usually about 2/3 up) and the kite would behave.
I can say that the kite was very well behaved all through the hole thing.


Total Posts: 37

Joined 2006-01-18

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Some notes from the field - you may have heard about the terrible bushfires in Australia a few months back; I happened to be kiting at Point Henry, near Geelong on Feb 7th, aka Black Saturday.  A sad day for Australia, unfortunately.

As for kiting in gusty winds though, the local sensor recorded a max gust of 47 knots (and 46 deg C!) right as we were kiting.  I was on a 6 m Rise ( I weigh about 90 kg), and a friend Richie was riding a 4 m Rise that we’d bought as a trainer kite.  It was difficult to stand up in that wind, let alone ride in it, but the 6m did fine.  Definitely some hairball kiting though; huge jumps, and any mistake could turn deadly.

At one point another guy on a Rise was having bladder troubles; his leading edge was slowly deflating and he wasn’t sure what to do about it.  I rode over to him, and with my kite in neutral during these 40+ gusts showed him how to release the leash and chicken loop while holding on to the oh-shit handle; meanwhile Ritchie landed his kite and helped grab the guys kite once he’d drifted closer to shore.  With a partially deflated leading edge, the kite was randomly relaunching when leashed to the two front lines, so grabbing the oh-shit handle was a good idea.  A crazy day, but it was nice to see how the kites performed in winds like that.

If you’re looking at, or are in gusts like that, I’d recommend using the oh-shit handle; better to have the handle ripped out of your hand in a mega gust, than being dragged downwind at highway speeds. 

Years ago I had a lofting accident on an old C kite with a new fangled two line leash system; I’d gotten caught by a rain squall on a 12 m C kite at Waipio Valley in Hawaii; in that case I just released everything when I drifted down to about 10 feet of the ground; as there was nothing but trees downwind and very close, I wanted to be completely free of the kite.

Same thing goes if you can’t reach the oh-shit handle - let everything go, sooner rather than later.  Even better, don’t go out when conditions are looking like that.  smile

Wade


Total Posts: 40

Joined 2007-07-19

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Thanks for the stories… I’ve rehearsed the procedures in my head a few times, hope they stick enough to work when the Big Fan is turned on by surprise. One question though. On the new SLE bar I don’t see any o-shit handles. Are they just not in the picture, or doesn’t the 2009 bar have them? If not, is it possible to put them on there? Since I don’t do any rotations, and there’s almost no reason possible to release a Rise because of the great handling, I would like to leash on to the handles. Is this possible?


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Total Posts: 295

Joined 2008-04-20

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There is one handle on one front line.

I advice you not to clip your leash on the handle, not ment to do so. Just clip it to the ring at the QR, you’ll be safe.

Just pay attention to the weather and when dark(er) cloud comes in just head back asap and land the kite, better safe then sorry..

When you’re out and heavier winds supprise you.. just stay away from shore and keep the kite low and edge, keep your speed slow, you will be surprised how much you can hold..
Finally when you really out of control, release the QR, see what happens and decide to completely release the kite or not.. it is just a kite, expensive yes, but just a kite..

Regards,
Arjan


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Total Posts: 511

Joined 2006-01-19

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The O-shit handle on previous OR bridled kite bars is a front line attachment with about a 4” ‘handle’ @ a S.S. ring with a piece of velcro the kite side of your upper swivel. You can attach your safety line where the ‘handle’ is looped through an eye on the end of a FRONT LINE . (NEVER USE A BACK LINE AS AN ‘O-SHIT’ LINE ON A RISE OR ONE KITE it’s an invitation to put your kite into a death spiral !!! ) I added a small loop of line through the ‘eye’ & would add a 3-4 foot line to my safety line here & attach my safety to my harness of course. ... Keep in mind: 1. If you release your chicken loop & use this o-shit attachment when deployed your session is over…It is a good plan if the wind has turned offshore or extreme squalls are encountered as mentioned previously.  2. If you are using this attachment point it would save you from loosing your kite if your chicken line (?) broke, but we check & replace this right ?!      I hope this helps.

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