Rise underpowered

Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Hey,
I was out today on my 10m rise in really gusty 20knot wind., and i had about 3inchs of the trim line pulled in to keep the kite depowered.When i started diving the kite it wasnt makein any power(and i was diving the kite aggresively).I had to let out all of the trim line from the clamp cleat just to get it to make me move.By lettin out the trim line fully i was well overpowered so i was findin it really hard stay upwind.

What i wnt to know though is, should the kite not still pull you even though you have it partially depowered??.

Also, at one stage i had the kite above my head while i was gettin the board on my feet, the kite then went around 3meters behind my head and began to fall from the sky . i quickly pulled in the front lines though and managed to keep it in the sky.
Why did it do that?  ( i only had about 2-3 inch’s of the trim line pulled through the clamp cleat)

Thanks in advance for any replies,
Seannnn


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Total Posts: 517

Joined 2008-04-13

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Hi SMG, which year 10m are you riding? And did you previously fly C-kites?
I’ve got one year in the 08 10m and diving it should deliver scary amounts of power in overpowered conditions. I don’t think the 09 is changed much in that respect.
Regarding the second question, were you in some sort of downwind current? If the kite attempts to hindenburg, you should be pulling back lines, no front lines…
Let’s see if we can help you!


Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Hi el rudo, its the 09 rise with the 08 bar.Ive only being riding a year so never used a c-kite.. The wind was cross-onshore and the current/waves was goin more towards the beach.when the kite went behind my head and started to fall ,i quickly pulled in a bit the front lines(center lines) to put tension in them as they are the lines the kite fly on ,aren,t they??this worked anyway and the kite began to rise slowly back into the sky.This was all pretty scary as i was out of my depth and if the kite fell i would hav being tangled up in the lines..

The other thing is im only 60kg and in 20knots of wind on a 10m i should be well overpowered and this was so until i pulled some of the trimline through the clam cleat.the kite then delivered no power when it was dived>>!!??It seemed to hav just let all the air flow past it. i’m thinkin that this might hav been because of the lulls, bt the the lulls werent that low to make the kite deliver no power.

throughout the session the kite was really unstable in the air when it was depowered. oh ya the kite was on the factory setting.


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Total Posts: 517

Joined 2008-04-13

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Hi, from what I can make of it you didn’t have enough back line tension, so you may have taken too much of the trim loop in at the cleat.
The hindenburging can be due to that. If you have the kite overhead, it’s always good to keep back line tension, in order to avoid crashing it. It’s also good practice to learn keep the kite low (at 2:30 or 9:30) when you’re doing things like putting on you board or walking on the beach. For one, gusts do not always travel horizontal but may fly up, down and sometimes even backwards (it’s turbulent air rolling over the surface, especially at the side of gusts). Keeping the kite at 12:00 can get you lofted. Another reason to keep the kite low is courtesy to other riders, who can’t pass upwind from you if it’s at 12:00.
With your weight 20 knots could be around where the high end of the 10m begins, imo you should be able to hold it a little over 20knots, up to 25ish.
Good luck and keep us posted on your developments!


Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Thanks el Rudo,
Ya 20 was dedinately really near the top end , I had the 08 6m with me aswell bt sometimes it nice to be a little overpowered. I always keep the kite low on the beach and in the west ofireland there s no need to keep the kite low while ur in the water since theres not much other kiters arround!!.

In relation to the back line tension i literally only had at most 3 inchs of line in the clamp cleat! I didnt have the bar pushed out much either..

The nxt time im out in non-gusty winds ill play around with the kite a bit and try and see what the cause was…

Thanks for all the help
Sean


Total Posts: 73

Joined 2008-03-29

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hey sean

i kite in very gusty, high elevation wind and have had this happen a few times. felt like PLENTY of wind but just couldnt seem to stay powered up and had it fall out of the sky with proper tension on the lines. then the next session, the kite flew like a dream. i just chaulked it up to weird, gusty wind.


Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Ya must the gusty winds alright,. cause the session before it was flyin perfectly.
Cantt wait till the south westerlies kick in again, pure non gusty wind for Ireland,.WOOOhhoooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Total Posts: 61

Joined 2006-01-18

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Sean,

Where were you out?  i’m guessing Donegal!! South westerlys suck on the east coast, anything with a west in it is coming from the land.  give me an easterly any day.

Sounds like the kite was over trimmed, and possibly under inflated. what knots did you have the lines attached to at the kite end?

If you need a hand i’m in Dublin, or if your around the north west peter in LSD Kiteboarding will help you out.

Brian

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Ocean Rodeo Rep Ireland


Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Good old county Maigh eo!! lines were attatched to the last knots on the kite end. And the other lines were on the depower more setting.
I couldnt hav been overtrimmmed , i think, because i hadnt much of the trim line pulled through the clamp cleat.

Thanks, Brian


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Total Posts: 143

Joined 2006-04-18

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Sean

Whenever the kite is flying a bit oddly it’s always good to go back and confirm your line lengths are all equal.  The front lines take most of the strain and will stretch mildly over time.  To check the lengths hook all four lines (minus rear line pig tails) to a nail/or string and make certain there is no slack when all lines are taut with the trim set at max power.

Otherwise agree with checking inflation pressure.  Also gusty winds are gusty winds and rapid wind speed changes will cause the kite accelerate and then fall back a bit.  The Rise is super stable in these conditions as a rule.  Try keeping the kite at a slight angle rather than directly overhead when you are in these conditions. 

Good luck, the 10 is a dream!


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Total Posts: 88

Joined 2009-02-14

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Okay.  Now I’m starting to get confused.

If your kite starts to hindenburg, is that where it wants to fly past you directly overhead??????

And if it does that, you’re supposed to pull on the rear lines?  Wouldn’t that have a tendency to power it up more?  Or are you actually powering it up too much then which in turn drops it back in the wind window?

Pulling on the front lines wouldn’t have the same effect since you would be taking power out of the kite when overhead????

I’m definitely getting confused on this one!!!!

Allen


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Total Posts: 517

Joined 2008-04-13

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Confused? You will be! After my explanation at least.

Hindenburging as I understood it is nothing more than a sort stumbling falling from the sky, inspired by a huge burning Zeppelin.
Your kite can do that if it’s at 12:00 and the angle of attack is getting so low the kite does not generate enough lift to stay in the sky.
In other words, the canopy is more or less parallel to the wind, no reason the fly!
So pulling the bar towards you a bit increases the AOA and the kite flies back to a position where it will fly again.
What I describe here is sort of the opposite of stalling.


Total Posts: 23

Joined 2009-03-16

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Im pretty sure it was all down to really high gusts as i was out in it again yesterday and it was fine.

About that hindenbourg thing, i’m thinkin that since i was in the waves and that i did hav a bit of trim line pulled in, that when a wave/swell hit me it lifted me enough so that the lines of the kite went slack and then the kite started to fall because it had no angle to catch the wind.

Cheers , Sean


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Total Posts: 295

Joined 2008-04-20

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It is a “front” stall.
At 12 a depowered kite, Low AOA, will over fly you in low wind conditions or at gusty winds, front line slack and no lift anymore.. the heavy part will come down first.. on the water not really a problem but on land I’ll run upwind fast before getting the kite crashed.

In normal powerd situations the wind pushes the kite back even before it is near the absolute edge of the window.

Keep your stopper at the right place or a little tension on the backlines, kite at 11 or 1 and you will not have the problem at all.
Arjan