ONE BRIDLE MOD – DYNAMIC FRONT / REAR LINE DIRECT

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ONE BRIDLE MOD – DYNAMIC FRONT / REAR LINE DIRECT

Here is a slightly more modern bridle mod, yet still really simple to do.  This mod removes the static front bridles allowing the kite to find an optimum position regardless where it sits in the wind window. The direct rear line obviously increases turning response and greatly improves re-launch abilities.

You will need several meters of suitable bridle line
4 pulleys

As a bonus, such a mod can be used on many different old SLE/ Bow bridled kites as it is a dynamic auto adjusting set-up.

Once again I have tried to utilise as much of the original bridle as I can and once again, you should be able to follow this mod for all kite sizes – I have included measurements for the 12m 2006 for reference)

(PLEASE NOTE – the original bridle lines were not made to resist abrasion from pulleys, so I would suggest replacing lines ‘E’ with a more suitable line - I have made it so line ‘E’ is easily changed over at any stage).

Part 1 .
Remove all bridle lines from the kite. You may want to make several of these simple little ‘2 knots on a piece of line’ adapters. I found them useful for making the bridle quickly and easily changed by simple larks heads. See pics 1 -3

Part 2 .
Make a ‘V’ using lines G,E,I, with a pulley running on line E. Attach to the 2nd and 3rd points from the inflation valves on the leading edge. See Pics 4 and 5. In this case the total length of the V made from joining all the pieces on the 12m was approx 333cm. This makes sure the bridle will never wrap around a strut tip.

Part 3.
Now starting from the newly added pulley, make another large V that runs well clear of the struts on the kite See Pic 6.  Attach another pulley to this line and then attach the other end of the V to the next attachment point on the leading edge (F attachment point). This pulley will be where you will attach your front lines, so add a suitable attachment pigtail. Your rear line will need to match this point See Pic 7.
You could use your left over bridle lines to make this, and simply add small sections at the bottom of the V, similar to what we have done with E above. However, at around 50c a meter, new V’s probably wont break the bank.

For reference, the 12m second V total line length is 5.9m – I made it this length as I have used the line extensions that came with the OR Bar as my new rear lines. This V could be smaller, some feedback from other uses could help to see how small we can make this V without the kite becoming too ‘twitchy’.

Part 4.
Add a long pigtail to the rear attachment point (direct single line). I used 2 of the OR line extensions (one for each side) as I don’t use them usually. These need to be the same length as the front line attachment points when the front line V’s are extended as long as they can and the kite is tilted forward (as if it were depowered in the air). If in doubt, make the rear lines slightly longer. It should appear longer when the kite is sitting normally on the ground. See Pic 8 - ignore the line coming from the old pulley location, it is currently not used. This may be a future add on that provides heavier bar feel when the kite is overhead (better jumping feedback) but light as a feather when in the park and ride position. Haven’t seen this done by any other manufacturer yet – Anyone want to give me a job wink


*Sorry I couldn’t upload all photos as there is only a 150kb limit.

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12m ONE dynamic bridle.jpg
Pic 5.jpg
Pic 6.jpg
pic 3 adapter joining bridle.jpg

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looks good!

upload more pics to http://www.imageshack.us

then just paste the link for the pic smile

i think a pic of the finished setup would be cool

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Wisha - after cobbling together a short version of the NEW line in your Mod 1 and having huge success, I’m keen to try this one too, how does it affect power/de-power and turning speed ?

Is it better than Mod 1 +  the direct steering mod ?

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Glad to hear you like it. What size kite did you mod? Would be good to know how it goes on all sizes.

To be honest, since it’s winter here (no summer sea breeze) I haven’t had a lot of time on the water to test it. I had a sweet session with the new setup in the 15-20 knot range. Compared to the first mod I think it turns better, definitely relaunches better and has a bit more grunt (depower and bar pressure are the same). Also, it didn’t seem to surge forward and drift back again in gusts as much. However, I haven’t had a chance to test the stability in lighter inconsistent winds. Also needs the leading edge nice and firm (nothing too crazy - about 8 PSI) since it is a direct rear connect.

Feedback from other riders would be good.


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I did a Mod 1 on a 12m 2006 One, quite a short NEW line, still noticed huge improvements. For my detailed review, see the previous Mod 1 thread, page 2.

Just laid out this Dynamic Front / Direct rear line on one side of my 12m, quite a simple bridle, visually there seems to be a lot of the middle of the leading edge not bridled, with this config starting at the second attachment point.  Would it be worth adding a bridle line from the first attachment point to the inboard end of the pseudo E line that the top pulley runs on ?

If it gives the same lighter bar pressure, good stability, and faster turning, I’ll try it next.

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How does this do it yourself mod compare to the official OR 2006 One mod? (http://oceanrodeo.com/forums/viewthread/270/)

I have a 2006 OR One 16m.  I bought the kite used and decided to give the sport a try after trying out a few friends kites.  They both had newer versions of Cabrinha kites. (Switchblade and Crossbow I believe)  I’m not on the board yet, just trying to master flying the kite in waist deep water.

After getting my kite all setup the one thing I did notice was that it turned slower than the other kites that I have tried.  So I want to do something, just not sure what is the best route.  Can you still buy the OR upgrade kit?  Or should I try the DIY method in this thread?  I don’t have any spare lines/pulley’s etc.  Where can one go to get bridle line and the parts to do this?

If anyone has a 16M One upgrade bridle they want to manufacture/sell by all means PM me with the price!

thanks, Paul.


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Padair - for a newb just starting out, a slower-turning kite is considered by most to be easier to learn on. So no rush, use your 16 as-is for while. The recent bridle mods by Wisha for the One are still in the “testing and de-bug” stage. Waiting will allow experienced riders time to report what works best. As a newb, you don’t want to be experimenting with bridle configurations.  No-one has done the new mods to a 16m yet, you don’t want to be the first trying to figure out what lengths the new lines should be.

I bought a OR bridle upgrade kit for my 12m back when came out, very slight improvement in turning speed but increased bar loads. IMO, I wouldn’t bother with it.

When you are past the early learning stages ( body-dragging downwind and upwind, riding the board downwind and then upwind ) and are feeling that the slow turning speed of your 16 is limiting your ability to jump, then it’s time to do a bridle mod. Right now you have a really good kite to learn on, tons of de-power, fairly stable, and built like a Sherman tank.

If you want to prepare for DIY bridles, start looking for a source for :

  - Ronstan RF13101 kite blocks ( the pulleys )
  - 2.5 mm diameter ( 7/64 inch )  Samson Amsteel dyneema line ( line running over the pulleys )
  - 600 lb.  Q-powerline ( for bridle lines that don’t run over a pulley   )

You may be able to find all 3 at your local kite shop(s), or maybe the first 2 at a marine supply store. All can be had from a variety of online suppliers.

BTW, if you are a newb on a 16m One, I hope you are a heavyweight ( 200+ lbs. ) - if not you may want to think about about learning on one size smaller kite ( i.e. a 12m ).

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First impressions after a moderately-powered day on my 12m ‘06 One with this bridle mod -  BIG improvement in turning speed, not quite as fast as my 12m Rise, but much faster turning than with the factory steering set-up, even with the kite de-powered or the bar sheeted out.

Bar pressure was less than factory, but not as light as the previous Wisha Mod 1 set-up.

De-power and stability were fine, although I didn’t really get enough wind to test at the top end.  Low end power was great,  so much easier to work ( sine ) the kite.

Kite didn’t get wet and I didn’t put it in the water to test re-launch, will have to wait for another time.

The kite had the same flat shape that it has with the factory bridle.  I will post the exact lengths of the bridle lines I used either tomorrow or on the weekend.

Again, thanks Wisha !!

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Oooh, yeah. Can’t wait!


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Good stuff, glad to see people giving it a go. I hope you also enjoyed the side benefits of an increased turning speed - bigger jumps, and it now loops nicely.

I do have a solution to lighten the bar pressure, but it adds complexity, and it is still a lot better than the original setup.

As for relaunch, I guess it is a good sign that it didn’t touch the water, but I can definitely guarantee that it is HEAPS better as it now pulls directly from the tip.

Cheers for your feedback Greg!


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Right I’ve finally got my 9m ONE back and working. Short session on it today and I was able to have a good look at the bridle set up and movement in flight. Couple of things I noticed.

1. The tips do pull in slightly on it whenyou power up on the bar.

2. The front attchemnt point moves sideways (almost like it’s on a pulley) when you move the bar in / out

3. The rear attachment is actually pulled forward a bit by the front bridle / pulley line.

Up shot is I’m tempted to have a go at the bridle mod I sketched earlier in this thread (I think it’s this one). should end upo similar to the RISE but will have a V at the rear. (mine will be more direct I think)

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My line lengths for this dynamic bridle modification on a 2006 12m One :

Direct rear line - attached to wingtip ( fifth or most out-board position on the kite )  267 cm loop to kook-proof loop

Lower V line - 615 cm ( a bit longer than Wisha’s 599 )  with a 4.5 cm leader on the pulley - this is the point the front line bar line(s) attach

Upper V line - 310.5 cm ( again a bit shorter than Wisha’s ) with a 5.5 cm leader on the upper pulley

Additional line from kite’s first ( or most centre ) attachment point - lenth 133.5 cm ; joining the line coming from the second attachment point ( I used the old E bridle line at the second attachment point & my E’s are ~ 92 cm )

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—Greg—-
I too have re-attached the original A line, adds a little bit of anti-stall ability in light winds. I Probably should post the updates.
Also, with the bar pressure, with the dynamic mod you should be able to pull in more depower trim than before, but still maintain good power as the bridle will adjust. Give it a go next time its gets a bit heavy. However, I will put up some add-ons if you would like it less.

—-Noonoo—-
I read on another post you wanted more stability. Basically that was the idea of the dynamic mod, so that the kites bridles ultimately change shape as the kite changes angles in the sky, which allows benefits such as a direct rear line (I guess this also answers your question about why all the pullies these days). A fixed bridle is a trade-off, or average setting for what everyone wants (ie Power/ fast turning, yet stability - Light bar pressure, yet good depower etc).

Also, I have tried your other proposed bridle design and it does produce much better turning. However, it still has fixed sections of bridle that tend to make the kite surge forward and stall backwards, hence the creation of the Dynamic Mod - fast turning, lighter bar, plus stability improvements.

——-  SAFETY HEADS UP——-
If you leave your original pulley attached to the leading edge be very cautious if self launching bow style. Your bridle lines could snag on them. It could result in an instant kite loop launch!


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Awesome Wisha, thanks.

Weekend was a most interesting and revealing one. Managed a couple of sessions on the “stock” 9m with a badly set up bar. Boy I forgot how that thing boosts.  cheese

I also bagged a quick session on a Best Nemesis and had a good look at a Cabrinha something or other and a Bandit Dos. Your bridle set up is identical to the Bandit. And the Cabrinha I think. Nemesis is way out there with 6 pulleys.

What I did learn was basically everything you describe here though. Little lighter on the bar would be nice, faster turn for sure and a better behaved kite will be most welcome. I’ve just broken the unhooked barrier and really enjoy kite loops so anything that can add some whip to the kite will be appreciated. At the moment is kind of drags its way round a bit.

I’ll definately try your suggested set up now.

Just a query. Is the first V (G, E and I) longer or shorter than the depth of the kite?

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Yeah, the bridle is a little bit of Cab Xbow, a little bit of Bandit Dos. I do like the Best VP2 / VP3 system, but where does performance gain vs simplicity end.

As for the G,E,I lengths they are shorter than the length of the kite, so that they cant snare on a strut end or wingtip.


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Thanks again Wisha

I’ve started putting this together now. I’ve also used “bridle line F” from the upper pulley to form the first part of the large V. I now need to either another part or use the 3m line extensions. I don’t use them either. I’m using slightly larger pulleys and short sections of 4mm dyneema throught the pulleys as I have some to hand. All fits together nice and easy so far.

Getting the rear line lengths will be the interesting challenge here.

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line lengths.

Just wrote a ‘how to’ on line lengths, but it dissapered when I posted it. Maybe it’s a Firefox thing, annoying :(

In short, run the kite bridles behind the kite (mimicking as if it was in the air at 12).

get someone to tilt the kite forward slightly (mimicking the kite in a depowered position)

Now move the front pulley to its longest position, ie bottom of the V.

Now add the rear line leader to match the length of your front pulley leader. (put knots above and below for adjustment). see pic.

When trying it out pull in a heap of depower just in case you have made your front lines too short. Then let it out accordingly.

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Pic note - sorry, should mention that this isn’t where the pulley would be when they are equal length. This pic was to just show the concept. Also, make sure you attach your pulleys correctly, not with larks heads as shown.


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Cant see what’s wrong there. Larks head has been used by others quite successfully.

Anyway I’m nearly sorted. I’ve found the 3m extensions will make the longer “half” of the big V. I just need to add a small running pulley line and get the rear lines sorted. Again I’ve used the 3m extensions here. A good test and tune then.

it’ll be interesting to see how this performs as the length of bridle obviously increases the overall line length. I was using 24m lines previously.

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Larks head works fine on the pulley, however to increase longevity it is advised to make a small loop so that the pulley can move/ twist freely (described in this forum earlier).
Anyway,
As for the total distance from bar to the kite increasing this is true, however it still flies much faster, plus you get the added benefit of a longer power stroke.win win!
Eager to see how the 9m goes.


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Here is my most recent adjustments to the dynamic bridle mod :

In the centre of the kite, from LE attachment point 1, a 156.5 cm line that connects to the ‘G’ line ( 124 cm ) coming from the second LE attachment points   I used to have my ‘E’ line here, but found when I went to single front line leash, instead of flagging the kite out evenly, all the load was on just two LE attachment point ( #1 & #4 - too far apart ! ). Making this change spreads the load more evenly when the kite is released to single front-line leash.

The second mod I’ve made, after some PM discussions with Wisha, is a line from the pulley attachment point to the outboard side of the lower ~ 6 m V-line. This addition moves the pull from the front line bridles just a little bit back, putting more of the kites pull on the front lines and reduces rear line loads, reducing the pull on the bar when sheeted in.  With this mod, the bar is much lighter; although it does reduce the amount the kite will de-power, only slightly I found.

I have my ‘C’ bridle line ( 78 cm ) coming from LE point #4 connected to a 63 cm line from the pulley point. Note that I made this line with lots of adjustment knots, started with it long, and adjusted it shorter about an inch at a time, until I found the sweet spot of low bar pressure, but still lots of de-power. If you go too far, the kite will be locked into a powered postion all on the front lines, no de-power if you sheet out, so be careful with this line if you try one - test it in lighter winds with lots of downwind margin!

General comments - after another long session with it, I think this is about as good as it gets for a good balance of low bar loads, de-power, and turning.  There was a factory-bridled 12m One out at the same time, useful for comparing the two kites’ turning radii with the bars fully cranked to one side. IMO, the direct rear line doesn’t make the kite turn a whole lot tighter ( smaller radius ) than the factory bridle, but it does eliminate the 1/2 second lag between cranking the bar over and the kite turning. The flatness of the kite across its wingspan doesn’t give it the wingtips of a C or hybrid kite that make those kites turn so fast. But as Wisha pointed out, that flatness does give the kite incredible lift, for tons of upwind ability and float in jumps.

What’s next for me - probably this same mod on my 9m One, making the V’s smaller of course.

After that, maybe I’ll try a bar with pulleys on the tips or steering lines like Naish have on their 2:1 SLE bar to have another go at more turning speed. Now that the rear line loads are reduced, doubling them at the bar may be tolerable.

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Good stuff again

my 9m is nearly ready but I haven’t had a fair chance at setting and trimming the rear lines. First and very early impressions aren’t bad though. Quicker, more direct and yes lighter on the bar. More to come.

Is this sketch right?


I personally wouldn’t try the pulley bar system. In my opinion it’s horrible having tried it on another brand. I lasted 5 minutes. No feedback at the bar, huge bar pressure and it feels like it locks. I would however have a look at the 3 pulley system as used on the Best Nemesis. Increases the depower for the same amount of bar throw.

A side thought does anyone know or remember what bridle system is used on the Eric Hertsen kites? From memory they are also extremely flat. Might be some ideas there

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Non noo - yes, your sketch is it.

Thanks for your comments about pulleys on the bar.  I haven’t seen any EH kites up close, but know that Eric does good work, so definitely worth considering.

Hope your 9 flies well !

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Cheers fella

Just looking at that sketch of mine and we might be getting close to something here. I’m not sure how the above bridle looks in the sky but it kind of looks a little out of shape to me - my sketching most likely. I’m going to have a look around to see what others do I think. The above is close but not quite there somehow. Your thoughts Greg / Wisha

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Non noo -  your sketch is right on, this is a much longer bridle ( long V-loops ) than on any other kite I’ve seen, but it does hold the kite in its designed flat shape. When I did the previous Mod 1 bridle, the kite was bent into more of a ‘C’ shape, which probably loads the fabric in the mid-span of the kite and isn’t good for the long-term health of the kite. The inboard smaller V isn’t long enough to snare a strut end. The outboard lower V is bloody long and could wrap the wing-tip, but it’s probably so long that it ought to allow the wingtip to untangle. I really need some more wicked kite crashes with it to say for sure.

Give it a go, I bet you will be pleased with the results.

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Noo Noo, the bridle will be a bit different to most as it is basically the creation of a 5 point bridle in a 6 point system. The large V could get smaller, but it could snare a tip if it gets too short. I’m happy enough with the setup, it loops well and has so much more grunt than before. As a bonus by adding a series of knots at point F (as Greg has) you can adjust the bar pressure to whatever you want, all the way to zero. Not many modern kites offer that. I actuall got told today that the new 2010 OR kite that I have flies well…Ha!


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Right I’ve finally got round to trimming and test flying this. So far I’m only on the bridle without the two extra add ons. More testing needed but I must say it all looks very encouraging on the 9m.

Firstly the kite is damn powerful. Plenty of low end.

Steering is obviously a lot sharper and bar pressure is reduced. Still some there but definately less.

No here’s the real bonus - it’s stable!! Set the stopper, still leaving loads of throw on the bar and just let go with the kite at the zenith. It JUST SITS THERE!!

I really need some water time on this now to reassess the range, performance etc. but the change certainly hasn’t done any harm to date

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Another convert, glad you like it wink Extra add ons give even more stability and bar pressure can go as low as you want.


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Still a bit aprehensive but some good testing is definately needed now. I really want to see how it behaves under load - kite loops and stuff where things can deform. Need to crash it too. I want to see how the bridles behave.

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Go to it, (Noo)x2. I’ve now done all my Ones ( 12, 9, and 7 ), old Riley pulleys are cut off, now I just need some decent wind to really test out the smaller sizes.

So far I’ve seen this dynamic bridle on a ‘09 Cab Switchblade that my friend just purchased, and have a look at this pic of the new North delta kite, the 2010 Fuse :

Picture is from the SBC Kiteboarding magazine website report on the 2010 Kiting Trade Show in Hood River ( http://sbckiteboard.com/features?news_id=1133&uniqid=1502 )

Not the highest resolution, but I would say we’re looking at the dynamic bridle.

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yes I’ve noticed a similar bridle on the Switchblade and the Bandit Dos too.

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thought I’d update this as I’ve now managed a decent session on the 9m in winds touching 25 knots. The wind was a little up and down so this was good test for sure.

At this point I’ve only done the mod in it’s basic form. I haven’t installed the 2 extra lines from the centre attachment on the leading edge or the pulley attachment. I’m not 100% on the benefits of these tbh. but we’ll see.

Performance.

turning. Here’s the true bonus. It’s sharp and direct. It actually loops very nicely with only one side of the kite deforming - bit like the 2009 RISE from memory. But it’s a big improvement.

Feel. Better. More direct. Bar pressure is reduced ever so slightly but you can actually feel the kite. It’s not power steering by any means but has a feel that I quite like. You can feel where the kite is.

Stability: Another bonus: It’s actually become very stable and well behaved. I’m trying to unhook more and more and I’ll admit I’m pants at it but letting the bar go against the stopper on a long throw the kite will sit / drift slowly. It behaves giving you half a chance to get back in. Pull too hard on the centre line with the bar too far out and you will pull it out of the sky so there’s practice and balance needed on my part.

Relaunch. This is now ridiculously easy, too easy. Tweak a rear line and it pivots. Not too disimilar to the delta style kites aka Wainmans etc. relaunch is crazy easy on those.

Power / Depower. now here’s the good and perhaps the bad. It has stacks of power for sure. loads of low end. Top end is there too. No worries. BUT the mod, yesterdays conditions and my lack of recent flying time on the ONE’s exposes the stally nature of the kite. It didn’t fly backwards or anything, just felt strangled. Build up your board speed again and all is good again.

Jumping: Bit of an odd day yesterday. One minute you were flying the next hardly getting off the deck. This leads me to suggest that getting good pop helps. The float is now insane. Pretty crazy before and it’s still there and perhaps even more. One jump yesterday I literally stopped and sat there watching the world go by before coming down.

Overall a definate improvement but I need more flying time so watch that leading edge for defomation and stuff. Didn’t see anything yesterday which leads me to believe things aren’t looking positive. I also want to see what effect the range of adjustment on the rear lines has. I’ve built in a fair bit there. in addition I also want more time in a range of conditions to review the overall performance with regard to stalling etc.

Good stuff Wisha / Greg

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Glad to hear it’s working for you, NooNoo. If you want to reduce bar pressure, then add the line from the original pulley attachment point. It doesn’t alter the steering improvements, but improves kite stability as bar pressure is reduced, and also reduces depower ability as bar loads are reduced. There is a pretty big sweet spot - it’s easy to adjust and find the flying characteristics that work best for you.

I’ve been flying my 9m a few times and yesterday my 7m with a shorter version of this mod, and am pleased with it. Yesterday the 7m made a fairly gusty 25 - 35 knot day a lot of fun. It’s a very simple mod that uses all of the original bridle lines and requires very few new additional lines.

I will post details and pictures of my shorter-V’s version for 12, 9, 7 m sizes, along with a method to size it up for a 16m ( I don’t have One that big ! ).

NooNoo - about the stalling you mention - was it “Front-stall”  ( kite at max de-power, zero or negative angle of attack, dives forward, kite inverts, crashes, general mayhem until it pops back to its design shape )  or, given your mention of flying backwards, more likely “Back-stall” ( kite at too high an angle of attack, kite slows right down, has no lift but loads of drag, or even flys backwards )  If it’s the latter, then it’s just sheeted in too far (or your steering lines are maybe about an inch too short ). On C kites it was easy to recognize over-sheeting, when the rear-edges of the wingtips were tilted inward. With the flat One and almost no curved-down wingtips, it’s hard to tell when it’s over-sheeted, other than it flying with a lot of back-stall.

If it’s Front-stall, the Ones are famous for this when sheeted out a long way, the Rises will do it too, without the inversions or so much mayhem. Adding the pulley-point line and reducing bar pressure will reduce this problem, or eliminate it ( at the expense of maximum depower ).

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Hi Greg

Back stalling is definately the issue which is a characteristic of the ONE in it’s original form. Basically bar into too far and the kite slows and generates no power. Sheet out and it’s off again. Being sooo flat etc. they were always prone to it. A quick look back at old threads and you find a catalogue of people struggling with them initially as they throttled the hell out of them, something you can get away with a lot more on a C kite. So many found the transition from C kites in particular difficult and odd.

The up and down winds made the problem a little more obvious so I do need to test it in “prime” conditions for sure.

Bar pressure I’m ok with for sure but might be interested in even more stability. Look at that one.

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

PM

 

I’ve subsequently given this another couple of goes i.e in its basic form (without Gregs extras). The last session was in some real gusty horror stuff going between 20-25 up to 35mph. A real test for any kite.

The truning I really like and the positve feel this gives at the bar is also excellent. The kite is now very sensitive to set up and sheeting which was partly due to the conditions. Simply the wind was as bumpy as a camel. Although the kite coped very well the sensitivity to set up etc. meant it felt as though it had lost some of it’s lift (I’d set it quite depowered) and the kite distorted in the gusts and when looping. But the kite is extremely well behaved now.

I’m going to try Gregs short bridle version now to see if that can add some extra support to the leading edge.

Definately getting there

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