One Bridle Mod - shorter version of Dynamic / Direct Mod

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See the previous similarly-named topic for the initial development of this bridle by Wisha. I altered my 12m One with the original mod, flew it for about 4 sessions in September, and was really pleased with the performance improvements . On the down side, I had one kite crash ( during release to leash testing ) where the long pulley V-line wrapped a wingtip. I decided to try shorter V’s when converting my 9m One.

My shorter version on my 9m One flew just as well as Wisha’s longer version did on my 12m. I’ve scaled my shorter version down for my 7m One and up for my 12. After about 5 sessions on my 9m, and one 25 – 35 knot day on the 7m ( none on the 12m yet ), with lots of kite crashes after blown jumps and testing leash releases to both front lines and single front line, I haven’t had any bridle-wingtip snags. So time to let others try it.

It is very easy to do, requires only 4 pulleys, pigtails for the pulleys, and four lengths of leader line rope, like factory bridle ‘H’ line. Here’s a sketch, the new V-lines & pulleys are shown in red. Everything else is just a re-arrangement of existing factory bridle lines.

Here are some pictures of my modified 9m flying. First shot the kite and lines are in focus, but the viewing angle makes the bridle proportions hard to see.

In the second shot, you can make out the bridle, but sorry, lousy focus.

I’ll post the V-line lengths next.  If you decide to modify your One, please consider that this bridle modification has not been widely tested. To date, only 3 One riders ( Wisha, Noo Noo, and myself ) have modified One bridles and posted results.

If you modify your bridle, TEST IT IN LIGHT, STEADY WIND (  10 – 14 knots ) AT A VERY SAFE LOCATION, with tons of space, and no hard objects or spectators downwind. I’d also recommend setting up your bar ( at least temporarily ) to leash to single front line, so that you can fully depower the kite if needed.

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Here’s how to make the shorter bridle mod.

Materials Needed :

4 pulleys :  Ronstan RF 13101-2 kite blocks ( http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF13101-2 ) - will cost between $5 - 10 US each.

V-lines : Several meters of Samson rope 7/64 inch diameter Amsteel Blue line ( http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?ind=1&app=3&rope=192&inst=1 ). See the chart below for the total lengths needed for various kite sizes. You can use the factory bridle H line, but if it’s severely worn where it ran through the pulley on the kite, I wouldn’t use that section. Cost is from about $0.30 - $1.00 / ft.

Pulley pigtails : ~ 1 meter of double-braided Spectra or Dyneema cored & polyester sheathed 2 or 3 mm diameter. I used Marlow Excel Racing ( http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=161 ) New England Rope Spyderline ( http://www.neropes.com/product.aspx?mid=FBAE29336C3B26FE710A6F20A0FF186C&lid=3&pid=201 ) should work, or even the 7/16 Amsteel if you can’t get hold of some thin double-braid line - cost about $3.

Sources for these materials range from your local kiteshop, marine store ( especially one that supplies small boat / dinghy sailing tackle ), or online. There are good prices for this stuff online, but shipping and handling costs can be significant.

Here are the V-line lengths for all kite sizes.

Directions :
Remove kite bridle lines H, I, G, and E. Your commitment to this mod will determine your method of removing H. If you want to be able to go back to the factory bridle, then mark on H line where the two Figure-8 knots are just above the rear attachment loop and un-tie them, and pull the H line through the pulley on the kite. Untying these knots won’t be easy, but the knots on the front line end of H are tighter and there are more of them. Use an awl to “spike” the knot several times to loosen it up.  Far easier, provided you are committed, is to either cut the Riley pulley off the kite, or cut the H line at one end.

Install the G bridle line at the kite wingtip. This line will attach directly to the kook-proof leader on your steering line, just like on the Rise.

Cut the required length for a V1 line ( see the cut lengths in the table above – note that an 8-knot takes up about 4.5 cm of line ). Tie a Figure-8 knot at one end, thread a pulley onto the V-line, and tie a second 8-knot the appropriate distance from the first knot ( see the knot-knot lengths on the chart ). Connect the C and D bridle lines to either end of the V1 line with larks-head knots.  Using 15 – 18 cm of line, tie a pigtail onto the pulley. Attach the I bridle line to the pulley’s pigtail. It should look like this :

Make up a V2 line, with two additional knots spaced 3 cm apart at one end. These extra knots are for tuning the kite, more about them later. Attach the free end of I bridle line to the single-knot end of the V2 line. Install the E bridle line onto the former pulley attachment point on the kite. Larkhead the free ends of lines F and E to the innermost knot on the V2 line. It should look like this ( note - 3 adjustment knots are shown in this pic, but I doubt you will want/need this much adjustment, maybe on a 16m ? )

Attach a pigtail to the pulley on the V2 line. If using 2 mm diameter line, double it up for added strength and safety, as OR does on the Rise. Attach your front flying line to this pigtail’s knot.

Laying your kite flat, with the bridle lines extended back as in the picture of half the kite above, the wingtip bridle line ( G )  should extend 2 – 3 inches past the end of the pigtail on the V2 line.

Now do the other side. Regarding line lengths, my table of lengths shows measurements to the millimeter, but you don’t have to be that accurate, just make the knot-to-knot lengths similar on both sides of the kite, within a millimetre or two.

Test fly your kite on a mellow day and safe spot. Before you launch it, pull in your trim line 4 or 5 inches, just to be safe.  If it flys well, then grab a big board and try it out on the water. With E and F lines at the first knot, the bar loads should be light. Kite stability should be great, even with the kite sheeted out a long way – no more front stalls when heavily sheeted out. De-power should still be abundant, but a little less than the factory bridle. If you want more bar load and de-power, then move the E line out a knot or two.  If your kite doesn’t backstall with the trim line all the way out, the bar at the chicken loop, and the kite deep in the power zone, and you want more power from the kite, lengthen the V2-line by moving both F & E out to the last knot. If your kite backstalls too frequently, and your bar’s front and rear flying lines are equal in length, then shorten the V2 lines. When you’re happy with the kite set-up, cut off the excess on the V2 lines not being used, as I’ve done on my 9m.

I will post again the methods I used to scale the bridle down for 7m and up for 12 and 16.

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Theoretically, bridle lines should be proportional to the square root of the ratio of kite areas. I confirmed this by measuring several bridle lines for the three sizes on Ones that I own. Results are tabulated below.

I’ve tabulated the ratios of average lengths. For a 7m versus 9m, the root of the area ratio ( theoretical value ) is 0.882, while measured ratios ranged from 0.894 to 0.884, so at maximum out by 1.3% The 12 to 9m ratios were out by less than 1 %.  Given that some left and right bridle lines were more than 1% different in length, I’d say it’s all within manufacturing tolerances.

If you are doing a 16m and want to confirm my line length estimates based on kite areas, measure your E, F, G, and I lines and compare their ratio to my 9m lengths. Theory says you should get a 16 -to- 9m ratio of 1.333.

If you mod your One, do it safely, and post your results.

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Big Hand to you Greg.

Huge amount of work and effort there - well done.

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Nice work Greg putting that table together. Would have been nice if OR gave us some numbers, but oh well.

Would like to know what the bottom of the wind range with the later released 12m Ones is like. The old battle tank (06) 12m that I have is very impressive and that weighs a tonne.

But if I can pull unhooked moves in 14 knots and not lose ground on a return tack (plus no stalling), then I’m pretty happy.

PS - If anyone tries the mod you WONT be going back to the original setup!!


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One more note - remove the old Riley pulleys from the LE of your kite, once you are sold on the mod. Wisha has already pointed out they are a potential snag point, as well as adding unnecessary weight to an already heavy kite - but I’m constantly amazed at how much abuse these well-built kites can take.  I crash a lot when trying tricks, and have blown out the LE on my 12m Rise, but I’ve yet to blow up a One.

Long live the old battle tank !

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Flying experiences with this bridle mod :

Yesterday I had my 7m out in gusty 25 - 35 knots. Kite flew great, but a couple of times on really aggressive power dives, the kite folded slightly span-wise ( wingtips coming a few feet closer together, into a deeper ‘C’ shape ) for a second or two, then the kite returned to its normal shape.  I probably didn’t have the LE pumped up firmly enough, but Wisha or Noo Noo, either of you seen this on your kites ?

The day before it was similar gusty wind, maybe 20 - 30 knots, and this time I had my 9m up. No stability problems, just too much time spent with the kite sheeted way out. Had one unusual event on a blown jump where I swung way under the kite, it front-stalled into a forward dive ( Hindenburgs ). I sheeted out and cranked the bar hard over on one side. At first it looked like the kite would invert as the wind pushed it back as it fell, but the kite turned 180, I evened the bar and it started climbing back up. At this point, the side of the kite that had been on the outside of the turn ( the slack steering line side ) started to pulsate. I think the bridle on that side was slightly snagged, although I couldn’t see a snag ) After two pulses, it returned to normal shape. Lines had a twist , but no front/rear lines crossed. Again, sound familiar ?

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The hindenburg thing sounds like it just simply didn’t have any tension in it. The wind tried to force it out but the kite’s shape is pulling it back. Does that sound right? Difficult to say without seeing it obviously

Yes, I’ve noticed the pulling together of the wing tips. I’m pretty sure it happened in the original set up too. Especially when looping the kite and you were half submerged (don’t ask). It seemed worse to me on the first incarnation of the bridle mod (without the centre and pulley line) which is why I’m trying this version now. That set up felt very sensitive to setup which seemed to take a little away from it so I’m hoping the extra support on the leading edge will help. As you say it’s a sign of the kite being really powered and sitting deep in the window. It’s a potential issue with all SLE / flat kites. In truth the only kite I’ve tried that seems to resist this better than most is the 2010 RISE. I’ve got to admit I’m not 100% sure if it will work as the direct rear line will always try and deform the kite. WIth the original pulley bridle this may have been compensated a little by the pulley and front bridle moving as well.

It’s done, ready to go but I just need the conditions and the opportunity now.

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Greg just had another thought on the distortion issue.

Wonder if it could partly be attributed to the shorter bridle. Although it is longer than the stock version I believe.

Thoughts?

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Noo Noo - this is what I think :

When the kite’s wingtips fold in, the loads in the middle of kite, carried by bridle lines A,B, C, D, V1, and I are greater than the load in E and F, so the V2 line runs through V2 pulley until it’s stopped by the E & F connection.

If the V2 line was longer, the kite could fold more. With the fixed bridle ( i.e. factory ), I don’t think the kite could deform as much.

Why does it happen ? Perhaps the mid-section of the kite has stalled ( back-stall ), while the flow is still attached at the wingtips. The Rise’s vented trailing edge is Ross H’s solution to this problem. For the One, trimming the kite in a bit is the only solution I can see right now.

I’d like more time flying this bridle mod to see what happens with it under a wide variety of conditions. I’ve only seen it happen with my 7m and not my 9, although I have about twice the hours on the 9 and have flown it just as aggressively as the 7.

Hopefully we’ll get a few more folks mod’ing their kites and more experience with it. I’ll be interested in how the shorter version flies on your kite.

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My theory is a little simpler tbh. I actually think its the whole kite distorting.

The kite naturally wants to form a C shape (like anty sheet held in the wind) but is held by the stiffness of the leading edge which is in turn supported by the bridle. Under extreme load the centre of the kite is pulled more into the C Shape. I guess I’m saying tye load gets distributed more to the outer sevtions of the bridle. My Caution has a very short bridle and does this a fair bit.

I’m guessing but that may be partly why many kite designedrs have moved away from very flat profiles.

Anyway, yes it’s test time. Weather here has been bonkers so no opportunity at the moment. Very soon I hope

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Dear Greg and Wisha,


I have just finished re-bridling the 12 meter One with your bridle. It was easy to do, thansk to your very clear instructions.  I have yet to fly it…we are in the middle of a week of real autumn- weather, 25 knots and above, won’t be flying the 12 soon, but I’ll let you know how I like it, as soon as I do.

I am more than a little curious. I never liked the 12 meter very much at all. Way too slow for my liking. Anyway, this is not meant to slag off the 12 meter One…it’s just never been my kind of kite. Still, with the new bridle…I might get to like it.

I have a 7 meter One, that I haven’t rebridled yet…didn’t have the pulleys at hand. I want to see the effect on the 12 first anyway (sorry for the lack of trust: I do like the 7). It would be nice if it could be a bit snappier in the turns, like the 6 Rise, but on the other hand, it is a great jumper, with amazing range, an though meant as a backup for my 6, I use it a lot!

Anyway, thanks a lot for all your effort in creating and sharing this new bridle!!! I have often thought about changing the bridle so it would be similar to the bridle on the Rise, but have never taken the time for some serious thinking and testing: you seem to have!

I’ll let you know how I get on with it, and if I happen on any new adjustments, you’ll be the first to know!


Arjen


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More experience today - 7m in gusty 25 - 40 knots - and last Saturday, in more steady wind, 28 - 32 knots.  Today, I didn’t have my LE pumped very firm,  around 5 - 6 psi. While riding, I could see the LE distorting between bridle attachment points in the gusts, and the wingtip-folding-in thing happens with the kite de-powered a lot and a gust hits it, pull the bar in a small amount, and the kite goes back to its flat normal shape.

On Saturday, I pumped the LE up quite hard, about 9 psi, kite flew beautifully, no wingtip folding. Had an awesome session.

It’s pretty clear to me now, at least with the 7m, the LE needs to be pumped FIRM.


Arjen - I hope you’re pleased with the 12; hopefully you have a 60 cm bar on it. The 12m with a 50 is like driving a bus. I often put a 60 cm bar on my 9m to tighten its turns. The 7m with a 50cm bar is pretty sweet.

Look forward to your comments.

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Hi Greg,


60 cm’s it is…it might be a while before you get any comments grin

It’s 7 meter time (on a 50)!!!


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GregKnowles - 23 November 2009 11:47 PM

More experience today - 7m in gusty 25 - 40 knots - and last Saturday, in more steady wind, 28 - 32 knots.  Today, I didn’t have my LE pumped very firm,  around 5 - 6 psi. While riding, I could see the LE distorting between bridle attachment points in the gusts, and the wingtip-folding-in thing happens with the kite de-powered a lot and a gust hits it, pull the bar in a small amount, and the kite goes back to its flat normal shape.

On Saturday, I pumped the LE up quite hard, about 9 psi, kite flew beautifully, no wingtip folding. Had an awesome session.

that’s interesting. Pull the bar in and the kite returns to its normal shape. My experience on my Caution is the opposite, you need to sheet out. That reinforces your theory Greg.

Either way…..........PUMP IT HARD!!!! gulp

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I’ve given this a go now. Well done Greg with the line lengths.

One thing I’ve noticed. When you pull on the bar the E bridle line (from the original pulley point to the V2 line) goes slack.
this happens when turning or powering up and is partly due to the kite deforming whenyou pull on that side.

Any thoughts Greg?

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Noo noo -  Interesting observation, will have to look for it next time out. Does it happen at all de-power trim levels, or more at one end of the trim range ?

What do you think of the kite with this bridle ?

If the E line is going slack, then the steering line must be distorting LE and wingtip into a deeper ‘C’, closer to the outer end of the V2 line, eliminating tension in E. So the LE of that wingtip around the old pulley point is only under support from the bladders and airflow pressures. Tension from trailing edge should tilt the wingtip bladder and put that wingtip in a higher AOA ( Angle of Attack ), which ought to move the wingtip LE out and away from the end of V2, keeping E tight.

Pump your wingtip struts rock hard too ? Makes me think the steering line attachment point is loading the LE too much and not enough on the trailing edge. Wonder what would happen if that steering line was attached to the TE ? Maybe an improvement in turning?

Hmm….  When I think about the wingtip folding together that I described a few posts earlier on my 7m, along with the tips deflecting together into a deeper C, there was also a twisting of the wingtips’ LE inward. Maybe it’s related to what Noo noo has noticed.

Need some close-up video footage of this weirdness, or better, many hours of riding !

BTW, a week or so back I had a great day on my 9m in GUSTY 10-30 knts, pumped rock hard and kite flew great, no weirdness. Also got to ride a friend’s ‘08 8m Rise, first time on an 8 Rise for me, as my only Rise is a 12.  Wow, fun kite.

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Hi Greg

yes steering input (and powering up) is pulling the wingtip in a bit, deforming the leading edge. Perhaps I need to inflate to a higher pressure. I had the kite fully powered a the time. I haven’t had a just to try it with any trim pulled in but I suspect a similar result.

The good news is though I had a really sweet hour on it after before the wind dropped. I definately need more time on it for sure to be 100% but the extra steering response mixed with the good things the ONE did have going for it is a bonus. The float is still there. The kite is still reliant on a lot of wind or apparent wind to get going.

As a final thought I’m going to add about 8” of line with a knot every 2” to the steering lines. That way on a really windy day I can depower the kite on set up and reduce the amount of trim I can have pulled through the cleat.

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Relaunch improvements - how I have seen big improvements :

I kite alot in a small lagoon where you can ride butter-smooth water on the upwind side of the lagoon. When launching solo, I’d secure my chicken loop and put the kite in the water straight downwind LE down, then go back to the bar, and launch the kite. With the factory bridle, the kite used to be stable sitting downwind on its LE.

Now, with the mod bridle, it’s not stable LE edge down, unless the wind is really light. Now I have to bolt back to the bar, because usually by the time I get to the bar, the kite has swung to one side, and is in the process of re-launching.

The direct rear line has greatly improved kite re-launching.

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yes definately. relaunch is daft now.

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Had a long ride in bright sun yesterday on my 12 One. Started with a surfboard and swell-riding, then the wind came up and I switched to a twin & jumping. Last time I flew my 12, it had Wisha’s longer dynamic/direct mod. My shorter version seems similar, maybe a little heavier on the bar, I may shorten my E line 2 or 3 cm.

With good light, I could see the slack on the E line in a hard turn, as Noo noo has reported, and confirmed what was suspected in prior posts. Nothing obvious or easy to be done about it I can suggest. Anyone else ?

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I suppose the obvious answer is a pulley greg.

Wonder if there is any mileage in a additional pulley there or swapping the pulley on V1 over to it?

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Let’s see what Wisha says about a pulley on the F & E pair.  He sent me a PM a while back about the line on the old pulley point. I’m pretty sure he’s tried it, and the kite loaded up too heavily on the E line, setting the kite on too large an angle-of-attack to have any de-power - same effect as shortening the E by 3 - 5 cm.

But on the upside, it may give the LE at the F attachment point some room to flex out, and speed up turning.

Wisha, any comments on this ?

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Hi Greg.

Pumping the leading edge and tip struts hard helped on my last session. It was less obvious.
Perhaps it may be worth dropping that line all together and reverting to Wisha’s original bridle suggestion (keep the A lines though) but I’m not 100% if that takes a little bit away from the kite in terms of float. I’d have to test it more.

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Hi guys, glad to see there is still some interest. I have never had any kite distortion on my 12m, but I always pump it up to 9 Psi. As for the E line slacking off, it can be a benefit when loading the kite up as it increases the bar pressure right when you want it. I tried using a pulley at that point with my version of the mod, but haven’t tried it with Greg’s shorter version.

As Greg stated earlier my findings was it lost all its bar pressure, so no depower at all. Not sure how it would go with the changed dynamic of Gregs shorter version. To be safe I would run a pulley with a stopper knot that can slowly be made further and further back (not fun being pulled by the front lines with the bar having no effect!). I think the pulley / stopper knot configuration would be a winner.


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Been thinking about this slack E line in hard turns, kind of rolling around in my head in the background for a while, and ...

I’m thinking it’s a symptom of the rear steering line not putting all its tension on the trailing edge as it’s supposed to, but instead loading and deforming the LE inboard. 

My solution - move the steering line attachment point from the end of the LE and put it instead right on the trailing edge,  about half-way between wingtip and the end of the first strut.

Am I certain enough about this to start stitching webbing onto a kite - maybe, would like to hear what others have to say about my theory ....

If I’m correct, and it improves tension on the trailing edge,  and allows the turning-side LE to open out ( keeping E line taught ) then turning ought to be improved.

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Definately an issue related to the very flat profile of the kite Greg.

Must admit I’m reluctant to move the attachment point though. Pulling on the canopy directly will merely pull the wingtip strut and leading edge closer together. Steering response will most certainly be lost IMO along with more deformation of the canopy.

I’ll keep thinking.

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I just read all your efforts to tune the ONE kites. It sounds very interesting but I am still not convinced if I should change the bridle mod of my 2007 ONE 7m.
I think the current setup is OK. Do you think there is so much improvement in stability, that I should give it a try?

Malte


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Malte - let’s define “stability” to make sure we’re both talking about the same thing - here’s what it means to me :

Stability - how the kite reacts to short-term changes in wind conditions, both speed ( gusts / lulls ) and direction ( wind shifts ), particularly when parked at zenith or at the edge of the wind window, with or without reactive counter-measures from the rider.

IMO, the One with factory bridle is a pretty stable kite. Loads of de-power, so handles gusts well by sheeting out, but not too much, otherwise, particularly in higher winds, it’s prone to inverting and flailing around until it pops back into design shape.

With the mod bridle, you lose a little de-power, but gain stability when sheeted way out. The kite’s a lot less prone to inversions.  The E bridle line on the former pulley attachment point keeps the kite slightly sheeted in, even with the back/steering lines slack ( massively sheeted out ), and that, along with the reactive pulleys , IMO improves stability.

If you are riding and catch a gust, you’ll feel it more in your harness and less on the bar.

As for stability in shifty wind, the direct steering takes the lag ( 1/2 second delay ) out between the rider’s steering input and the kite’s reaction, making it easier to correct and handle the kite drifting around in wind shifts.

If you mod your bridle, post your results, and help others decide on the same questions.

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Malte,
Basically you will take your 7m from an old generation kite to a current generation kite. If you are confident to do it then you will have nothing to lose.


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Greg,

Mate it has finally come time to part with my 12m ONE (It is now in the hands of the Ebay gods!). It is a great kite, but I’m now riding Delta kites and need to stick with kites of the same feel. Seems like people are starting to catch on with the benefits of the mod. Feel free to message me at any time if you want me to look at any ideas. I think we got it to about 95% of its potential.

To the rest of the OR ONE owners, if you are still flying them, do yourself a favour and try the mod…it works a treat!!


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Wisha -  I hope she goes for a decent price, you have done a lot for all One owners to increase the value of these bomber kites. I’m sure the word on the new bridle will continue to spread.

But I know what you mean about sticking to a single design to keep your kite flying timing consistent. Usually in summer and in lighter wind I ride a 12m Rise, and before all the bridle mods, I was planning to get an 8m Rise for our windier fall/winter/spring. But the new bridles have made my 7 and 9 Ones a lot more fun. Maybe I’ll upgrade after I get a chance to ride to 2010 Rises in the smaller sizes, I’m hearing nothing but raves from those that have ‘em.

Again, thanks, & cheers !

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Turning Speed - the final frontier for my 12m One - Flysurfer sold me a 70 cm carbon bar that I set up with an OR line set. Had the 12m out for a good session yesterday, and wow, big improvement in turning, kite turns sooner,  tight pivots with the bar cranked over and the kite sheeted in some. 12m now turns like the 9m with a 60 cm bar, or 7m on a 50cm bar. Will have to compare it to my 12m Rise, which has been feeling neglected.

Latest Bridle developments - Wisha PM’ed me a note a while back after trying my shorter version of this bridle mod on his 12m One,  ( before selling it ) basically saying his kite flew better with the longer version of the mod. After thinking about this for a while, I considered the differences between the two :

1. Longer bridle lines align closer to the direction of the pull from the kite which those lines support, while shorter lines are more obliquely angled, loading up the kite with higher lateral loads, which likely distort the kite into a bit of a kinky shape, away from its design-intended gradually-curved shape.

2. The longer bridle did not use the first or near-centre bridle attachment points.

I decided to have a go at the worst of #1, the A & B pair, replacing them with lines about 2.5X B’s length and 1.5 X A’s. Did this on my 12m, but I’m not certain it’s had any effect. Likely I’m not good enough kiter to tell the difference. I’ll post the lengths and line plans if anyone else is interested in trying it - Let me know.

I may also have a go at #2 in a few months, when things warm up a bit here, right now it’s still too bloody cold at the beach to be messing with bridle lines. Enough winter, bring on spring !

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Hi Folks,


Tried to post last Sunday, after a great session on my 12 meter One…something went wrong posting the long, rambling message, perhaps for the better.

I promised to let you know a while ago how the 12 meter performs with it’s new Wisha/Greg bridle. Here it is: AWESOME!!! Thank you Greg and Wisha.

It’s a different kite. It’s a One on steroids. The 12 meter One had been lying in the shed for a long time…now I have a light-wind weapon that is actually fun to use. I have used the specs. as described in this thread. All I had to do is adjust the length of the brakelines. Perfect!!

If anyone has any questions, go ahead. Right now I am a little pressed for time. Later!!!

Arjen

P.S.  Do not hesitate!! I am actually going to do my 7 meter One as well.


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Hi Arjen,
I did the modification (#1) with my 7m One already in February. I used it only once for a couple of minutes in very unstable gusty conditions, just to try, if the line setting is working. It worked fine, but I had one fontstall, but as I said, it was shity stormy weather in the inlands. On the other hand, the general setting seems to be OK.

Let me know, how your 7m One flies after the modification.


Malte


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Will let you know Malte, thanks! It will be a while though, I lent it to a friend of mine who lost his kite to sea, and I have a 6 meter Rise, so I told him to keep it as long as he needs it…

Regards,


Arjen


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Bridle Mod update :  I’ve been thinking over the past few months why Wisha’s original longer mod would fly better. His mod had no bridle attachment at the center or first inboard LE point, whereas my shorter version has the A and B lines coming off at oblique angles ( same as factory bridle ). So I re-arranged the bridle lines from the first three points :

LE 1 -  combined the C & B lines
LE 2 -  new “P2” line here, lengths are 41 / 46.5 / 53.8 / 62 cm loop-loop for 7 / 9 / 12 / 16 m2 kites

These two lines join into D line and then one side of the V1 pulley line

LE 3 - A line, which connects to the other side of the V1 pulley line

Remainder is same as my original shorter mod. I made my P2 lines using Q-power line, making loops with an overhand knot and covering them with heat shrink.

Here’s a picture

This mod makes the front lines a few inches longer, and the kite prone to flying backwards if trim line is set for full power. Compensate by shortening the V2 pulley by about 4 - 8 cm.

Will have to get a picture of the bridle with the kite flying. Lines now all come off the LE closer to perpendicular. My kites seem to fly better, but honestly I’m not a good enough rider to notice a huge difference.

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Used to be a post before this one, don’t know what happened to it ... ??

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Hi Greg,
I changed the mod for my 7 already in February. There wasn´t enouph wind yet to test it proberly. Would you suggest to update to your new setting from july?
Regards
Malte


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Malte - I didn’t notice any difference after making this latest tweak. I recommend when you get some decent wind,  fly your 7 with the original mod that you’ve already done. Then if you feel like doing a bit more and have a few meters of Q-line handy, then give it a go.  If you notice any change, then please post about it.

Wisha noticed his 12m did not flying so well with my shorter bridle compared to his longer version, and I think bridle loads at the first and second attachment points are the issue, I’m just not a sharp enough rider to notice the difference. Does my tweak fix the problem - I don’t know,  I need others to try and say.

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I put the latest mod on my 9m One and had two sessions. First session was fairly steady 10-15knots and second was gusty and shifty 10-18 knots. I was going upwind or holding my ground in the lulls in both sessions. I weigh 144lbs and have been kiting on OR kites since 2006. I was riding a CrazyFly 144 board at low-tide off Cape Cod, MA. I noticed right away the better turning, slightly reduced bar pressure, less depower and some increase in low-end. Yes, the tips deform a bit but it is not worse than the original bridle as far as I can remember. The kite was inflated rock-hard. I played around with the knots and noticed that if the kite is not over-sheeted a bit, it does not turn as fast. It might have to do with the amount of wind I was operating in. Overall I was pleased with the mod. I also rode my un-modified 7m OR One in higher winds the same day that it was gusty and shifty. It was noticeable what happens when the wind direction changes and you lose power unless you re-direct the kite and point the board downwind. On my 9m earlier in the day I did not notice this behavior as bad as on my 7m, so definitely there is a good change which occurred because of the bridle mod. Also I noticed that in the gusts the kite does not charge forward as much as it used to. My only slight concern is with the amount of depower and how that would affect things riding in higher gusty winds. Is there a setting for the new bridle that would bring back some of the depower ? For summer riding the amount of depower is ok, but for winter riding in small fields with the gustiness and shiftiness that winter winds bring, I will have to think about. As I ride my 7m quite a bit in the winter I will most likely try the mod to see how it will do. All in all an awesome mod. Thanks for the contributors work on this.


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Buhas - 13 September 2010 05:17 PM

  .... Is there a setting for the new bridle that would bring back some of the depower ?

Did you notice any change when ” playing with the knots” ?  Keeping the F line at the same knot, you should get more de-power by moving the E bridle line farther out on the V2 line, or in other words making E longer by setting it to a knot closer to the end of the V2 line.  Bar pressure will be heavier with the kite sheeted in.

The flat ( span-wise ) shape of the One means no wingtips to crank turns, I compensate by using a wider bar, a 60 cm bar on my 9m helps make it turn tighter.  50 cm bar on the 7m works for me.

I find my 7m more stable in gusty strong winds with the bridle mod, but then I run it with a little less de-power. Maybe also run your 7m on shorter lines ( i.e. take off the 3 m extensions ).

Good to hear you like it. Props to Wisha for trying this first and posting about, which got me interested.

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I will try playing with the “E” line length to see how much depower I gain. But I am curious, when the kite is trimmed to full power and the bar sheeted-in completely, are the wingtips angled-in a bit on your setup ? I noticed the kite turns faster if setup this way. I thought typically with kites if the wingtips are angled-in, they can be slow to turn. Either way it’s all good so I will keep the setup as is.


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I’ll have a look for this next time I’m out, will let you know.

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Well I finaly got around to doing the mod and what a day to test it.  Started out at 20knots but finished at 25 gusting to 30. 

The mod was an improvement based on this initial go out.  I have to say that the kite performed really well, particulary considering the conditions.  Quite response and it felt smooth.  In these winds I have had the fear of inversion without the mod (justified with some experiences) but I did not get there today.  There was some distortion on the super funky and strong gusts, but better than without the mod.

I was worried that this mod would reduce the kites gust absorbtion feel.  It did not.

A big thanks to Greg and all those that contributed!

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Hi guys, Firstly ,it is nice to see that other kiters are also questioning the factory setup and don’t take it as the Alpha and Omega.
I’m new to the sport and bought a 2008 10m Cabrinha Switchblade and a 2010 13m IDS Crossbow.When I asked the guys the tech department why it is that the older kites doesn’t work with IDS they simply said its because of the bridle system, without offering any solution’s. My question is , do any of you guys know of anybody that did a similar mod on the older Cab’s to allow it work properly with the IDS setup. I know it must have something to do with the pulley setup on the bridle , but I do not know how to determine appropriate lengths of the bridle lines. Can someone please help???

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Bones - I have only mod’ed bridles on the OR One, but from that experience know that it’s an easy thing to do when using pulleys to split the loads and self-adjust to an equilibrium. I’m pretty sure the newer Cab’s use a 4-pulley bridle similar to the mod described in this thread, as a buddy of mine has a newer Cab that I’ve had a quick look at.

So I say, go for it. Use your newer 13m Cab as a model and scale a do-it-yerself copy onto your older 10m kite. Measure the 2010’s bridle lines, and for lengths of the new 10m bridle, multiply by 0.77 ( square root of ( 10 squared divided by 13 squared )). Provided the bridle attachment points on the kite are in about the same locations on the leading edge, it should work.

BUT first test flight should be in light wind at a very safe spot, no hard objects and lots of room downwind - safety first.

I think the originator of the One bridle mod, an Australian who goes by the name Wisha on this forum has done other kites, maybe PM him if you have questions about other kites.

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Yep, Greg’s got it.

Look particularly where the leading edge bridle attachment points are, where the pulleys are, total length of the front line bridle in relation to a wing tip (ie can it wrap behind a tip), and then the length of the rear bridle in relation to the front.

If the new IDS leading edge attach point is in between the older leading edge points, simply make a ‘V’ with two lines to create a new ‘pseudo’ attachment point to be in the middle of the two others.

The IDS Switchy bridles are about as good as you are going to get for low end power, jumping, gust smoothing and medium bar pressure. Pretty much standard self regulating bridle, kite can slide under the bridle for IDS to work. Move the front bridle back to the rear to make it lighter, better for unhooking but less depower, less low end, less depower.


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Oh.. and start off with the rear bridle being longer first. Then tune it by shortening ie make the rear line with a heap of figure 8 knots on it.

I would assume the kite profile has changed slightly, so the front rear bias will be slightly different.


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Got asked the other day if anyone has tried tweaking the 16m LW version..anyone??


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No 16m’s done that I know about, but my latest mod to my 12m One was to re-sew the Leading Edge bladder pocket seam taking off about 3 inches of fabric at the middle of the kite ( seam moved 1.5 inches narrower, or closer to the canopy ),  tapering to nothing at the tips. Now the One’s LE matches the diameter of the LE on my 12m Rise.

This has made my 12m One a little bit faster across the wind window. LE bladder is still stiff enough to hold the kite’s shape, no instability problems. No new problems that ‘ve noticed from this mod, unfortunately it still turns kinda slow.

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Ha ha nice, re -sewing the leading edge, now that’s commitment! Re weld the bladders to reduce weight (super commitment!) Though quite easy with an iron between 2 bits of paper.
I’m going to try to get my hands on a 16mLW and see how we go.

PS. always will turn slow being so flat, however the more advanced I get the more I find this actually desirable (for wakestyle this is a good thing). Currently sending the kite allover the place during pasess :( never thought I would say slow is good.


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Ya, I only took off fabric, haven’t trimmed the bladder down ( yet ).  With the bladder out and a decent machine, it was an easy sewing job, since the existing seam kept the two sides aligned. Just measured the offset at LE panel seams, marked straight lines between those measurement points, ran a straight stitch down the mark, folded that onto a lenght of weed-eater line ( same LE seam construction as on the One, simpler than the Rise’s ) and ran another straight stitch to hold it down tight using a piping trim foot on the machine. then trimmed the excess fabric off.

I was concerned that this mod might shift the bridle attachment points too much under the LE, but doesn’t seem to be a problem.

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Fair play Greg.

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When we get don’t get decent wind, I start messing around with my 12m One. And July has been very poor for wind, so ...

I flew it in about 10-15 knots with 4 struts un-inflated - flew fine, so off with those four struts ( wing-tips and pair right beside centre strut ). My 12 now only has 3 struts, evenly spaced, and it still flies great,  much lighter kite now, re-launch is still fine, although after a heavy crash the wingtip canopy can be held down a bit with water, just takes a litttle longer to spin it downwind, fill the canopy and push off that water, and away.

Flies way better as a light wind kite, de-power is still pretty good, seems lighter on the bar, especially when parked and motoring along, you don’t need as much countersteering to keep the kite low and forward in the window.

Best part is its response when you ride at the kite. Instead of stalling and flying backwards when you ride down a wind-wave, it drifts nicely and climbs eagerly when sheeted out a bit.

Wisha, if you find that 16, you’ve got to lighten it up and take off struts.  I will post a picture of my 12m flying next time I’m out with it, and details of steps required to remove struts.

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GregKnowles - 21 July 2010 10:17 PM

Bridle Mod update :  I’ve been thinking over the past few months why Wisha’s original longer mod would fly better. His mod had no bridle attachment at the center or first inboard LE point, whereas my shorter version has the A and B lines coming off at oblique angles ( same as factory bridle ). So I re-arranged the bridle lines from the first three points :

LE 1 -  combined the C & B lines
LE 2 -  new “P2” line here, lengths are 41 / 46.5 / 53.8 / 62 cm loop-loop for 7 / 9 / 12 / 16 m2 kites

These two lines join into D line and then one side of the V1 pulley line

LE 3 - A line, which connects to the other side of the V1 pulley line

Remainder is same as my original shorter mod. I made my P2 lines using Q-power line, making loops with an overhand knot and covering them with heat shrink.

Here’s a picture


This mod makes the front lines a few inches longer, and the kite prone to flying backwards if trim line is set for full power. Compensate by shortening the V2 pulley by about 4 - 8 cm.
.

HiGreg,
I did this Modifikation and had a frontstall last time I went out. May be I made a mistake. I shortened the V2-Line (7m, now 135cm) by 6cm. Not the V2 pulley line, which is in my setup from f-One and fix 7cm long from knote to knote. Could that be the reason for frontstalling?How could I change the setup, to prevent frontstalling?
What do you think?
Malte


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Malte :

If you are getting front-stalls and want to tune this out with the bridle, change where the E and F lines connect to the V2 pulley line as follows :

- connect the F line on a knot closer to the end of the V2 line and where the E line is connected

-  connect the E line on another knot farther from the end of the V2 line

By effectively making E shorter or F longer, the kite will fly with lighter bar pressure, de-power a little less, and be more stable ( less prone to front-stall )  at or near near zenith.

On my 7m I have the E and F line connection knots about 3 cm apart ( F connected closer to the end of V2 ). I find this setting gives a good balance between de-power, bar pressure, and stability.

If you don’t want lower bar pressure and less depower, then you have to always fly the kite with a slight load on the back lines to keep it at a positive angle-of-attack and a litle back in the window.

Hope this helps - the tuning on the bridle is easy, just do it on a mellow day when you can adjust, try it, re-adjust, and find a setting that works best for you.

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Greg:
Thanks for your advice. I will try it out.
What I changed already last Thursday was the following. I connected E and F a knot closer to the end of V2 (138cm).
I also connected the rear flying line at the bar a knot closer to the bar, so it’s a bit shorter (3cm).
All four lines (without the connector at the end of the rear flying line, measured with a screwdriver only through the loops at the end) now have the same length, when the bar is fully powered.

Then I read all the articles again about front stalling in the forum together with my son (basic advice: always keep little pressure to the rear lines).

Last weekend my son went out with the kite in Sankt Peter Ording. We had 23 knots up to 30 knots. I told him not to jump, and concentrate on back line pressure. And everything was fine. No front stall at all in three hours! After the problems a couple of weeks ago, he liked the kite a lot this time.

Next weekend we will kite again at Lake Garda. If there is “vento” in the morning he will give it another try. I will report.


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Last weekend I was out in 26-35knt with the 7one and everything was fine with the new briddle-update. No frontstall, but I always kept line pressure to the rear lines. Wind was very gusty and there was no problem.  Nice kite.
Malte


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Got a picture of the ‘Franken-one’ Without the struts Greg? smile


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I liked what my 3-strut 12m has become so much, I’ve done the same to my 9m - call them Three-Sevenths now instead of Ones, but haven’t tried the 9m yet, will make sure next time there is some wind to take a camera with me and get some pics.

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OK, here’s a picture of my 9m with 4 struts removed, not very colourful, black & grey kite,  on a cloudy day, but typical coastal BC fall windy weather. The day was pretty windy, maybe 18 - 25 knots and about 17 deg. C.

The wingtip trailing-edge flutter ( red circled area in the photo ) on the 9m was pretty intense - maybe becasue this kite has the most hours on it and the canopy is a little stretched out. Unless the kite is sheeted in at or near full power, the Trailing Edge that extends beyond a line drawn from wingtip to the remaining outside strut is flapping ( both sides if the kite is at/near zenith ) or lower side near the edge of the wind window.

I haven’t ridden the 9m yet to say how much of a difference it makes. On land, obviously the kite is much lighter, so I expect this mod to help on the low end.

I may try something similar to my 7m, removing just three struts, the three that remain in this pic -  depends on the weather, if it blows then my free time will be spent riding, no wind and I’m chopping up my old kites ...

If you want the full details on how to do this mod, then post a request here. If there is interest, I’ll do a write-up of what’s involved.

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Have sewn a 15-inch fiberglass tube batten ( from a hobby shop, about 3/8-inch diameter, thin, light , stiff ) on the wingtips where that outer strut was located and all the flapping is happening - will see if this stops the flutter without adding as much weight as an inflatable strut.

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Bingo - had the 9m out this afternoon for a quick session, well powered at first, then backing off a bit to just nicely powered, and not a flutter or flap from the trailing edge of the wingtips, Worked really well, this 3/7th mod of the 9m makes it drift nicely when riding downwind with the kite low, all around a more nimble kite.  Kind of slants me to do a similar -4 strut mod to my 7m and add battens, see how much wind or calm we get in the next while ....

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