In choosing a a new 12m kite( to match my 2010 9m rise) when would you choose to fly a rise over a razor.  There seems to be so much steam behind this new kite (in its young life) and am curious as to what the senior crew has to say.  I have read Jeremie’s synopsis and still continue to read everyones experiences about it.  I understand you can’t go wrong either way but….......when would recommend the rise over the razor.  I’m torn and do not have the experience or the ability to really test and compare etc.  For conversation sake…could there be point for some riders when you bought the razor and wish you bought the rise????

Curious like a cat and trying to understand the sport,

JD

From what I hear and with playing with a 10m Razor
To match your 9m Rise ( A brilliant kite) I would go 12m Razor.
Reasons.
1 Taking you don’t have a bigger kite the 12 Razor will give you more bottom end there fore more chance to have a good session
2 Top end of the 12 razor not an issue as the 9m Rise will cover.
3 Jumping will be covered by the 9 as big kites are not so great.
4 turning speed of the 12 razor will be close to the 9 rise so feel similar. Easy to swap
In this I have taken on board what you say about your ability and based the suggestion on free ride fun with a few tricks to come.

I haven’t flown the Razor myself, but given that it sits deeper in the wind window than the Rise, has a lower aspect ratio, just 4 struts and a c-ish shape, I would expect the Rise to be better for jumping (especially hang time), upwind and top end.
Feel free to correct me..

The Razor has lot going for it but to answer your question - I would still go Rise when:

1. Wind is seriously cranking - Rise is amazing here, tremendous range and wicked fast turns/loops in the 10m and smaller sizes.  Were talking 8 m conditions. 

2. Gusty conditions - Tons of depower just by sheeting out is a major strength and noticeably different from the Razor…. Not that the Razor is a lofting waiting to happen, it just isn’t designed to depower the way the Rise does.

3.  Need some extra-upwind ability - If you are constantly being offset by several knots of current, I think the Rise goes upwind slightly better than the Razor.  The Razor goes up wind very well, especially for how deep it sits in the window.  But the Rise is category killer in this department and goes upwind like a buzz saw.

4. Massive Boosting - I like jumping the Razor but so far it has not ripped me of the water as hard or as high as the Rise.

5. General Free Riding - Rise is hard to beat in this category.  Low bar pressure, ease of use, superb performance - if I am not planning on unhooking a lot or craving more yank in the loops, the Rise is ideal. 

I have both Rises and Razors - and plan to keep both.  Reading all the reviews you could come away with the impression that no-one should buy the Rise as the Razor is so clearly superior.  It is not not the the Razor is better - is is just different - a C/SLE hybrid that has a a lot of C features in it.  This plays out when you want low end grunt, direct feel, more power in loops/turns and improved unhooking.

The Rise is still the best free ride kite I have ridden in terms of range, power, de-power, speed and boost - and makes for a very dynamic and high performance ride - which is why there will still be and 8 and 10 mixed in with my Razors.

I agree with everything Cam has said but will add my own take on it too…

In really variable wind conditions the Rise will win as it offers more de-power and therefore is better in gusts or when you demand a kite that can cover a huge wind range.

I agree that the Rise has longer hang time than the Razor but I personally feel I can jump higher on the Razor and get yanked straight up off the water as opposed to a longer ascent / decent.

For me, I think 2011 will be a 6/8/10 Razor quiver with a 7m Rise for those gusty gnarly days that are just so much fun to ride in but so variable in what you need to deal with!

John Z

Pilsner, where are you riding and what style of riding are you into or working towards? Freestyle, waves (off or onshore?), cruising/freeriding? The Rise/Razor decision is more about that than one being ” better ” than the other. In general, the Razor is much more physically demanding than the Rise, especially in the larger sizes. You can fly either kite in any conditions - it’s about how you want it to handle.

Cheers,

Evan

Evan.

I ride inland lakes on the somewhat gusty Canadian prairies.  Ripping, jumping…..progressing trickery.  I understand it’s not rocket science here and was going to pair my 9 rise with the 12 rise but with all the positive feedback about low end, etc…...the 12 Razor sounds enticing.  Its a good problem to have..choosing bewtween the two.  I sit on one side one day…and convince myself of the next on the other!

Thanks for the insight,
JD

JD,

All I can say is that since I began demos with the Razor in August, with the exception of only one single rider (know locally as Double Trouble) everyone has told me they are switching to Razors…if you’re a progressing freestyer I think it’s a no-brainer for you. I love the Rise, but the only time I would personally fly the Rise over my Razors is in extremely windy, gusty, side-off big wave conditions where the added depower of the Rise will help to prevent me from being pulled out the back of the wave when overpowered. Then again, the 6m Razor has proportionally more depower than the larger Razors do so I may not bother…:)

Cheers,

Evan