[color=orange][/color So I’m a bit confused as to which kite, the rise or razor, is better for my large and smallest kite. I’m thinking of purchasing and 8m and 12m. I’ve read great reviews on both and ocean rodeo says the rise is made for those pursuing a 2 kite quiver but all the forum info I read tells me that the razor woouod be best for my larger kite since it has such great low end, but I also read that it is harder to stay upwind with the razor. Can anyone clarify??
The Razor for your big kite to get the bottom end. Then you can go either Rise or Razor for the small kite There are loads of threads explaining the difference. Just check your wind stats to make sure you need the top end of an 8m . 12m to 8m works but 12m to 9m is so much nicer with less chance of ” to much or to little”.
You can’t go up wind if you can’t go!!
The Razor will get you going earlier.
The Razor is good up wind but the Rise is brilliant.
If you have shops near you get a demo
The Razor is really good for upwind, lots of grunty low end that you need to hold ground in low winds. The Rise is more “Course Race material” in that this kite can be parked low and pulls you upwind fast and easy.
There is no “harder to stay upwind” issue with either the Rise and the Razor!
If you have trouble selecting one of these kites, you might want to think about the kind of rider you are.
Effortless freeride, easy & big jumping, gusty conditions >> Rise
Smoothest looping, surf, unhooked, aggressive steering >> Razor
Unhooked, wake- & park style riding, freestyle >> Cypher
I’ll add that it depends a bit on what your boards are.
One all round twintip….. rise. I just think it will get the twin tip guys upwind better.
If you have a good low wind board, be it a big twintip or flat surfboard, then I think the razor is pretty easy to get upwind.
Look at the above post and get the kite that sounds like the most fun.
Low wind/upwind have as much if not more to do with what’s under your feet.
Brent, you’re right from a technical point of view, but compared to other kites in it’s league - Park, C4, Rpm to name some - the Razor goes upwind remarkably well.
So I would really recommend to look into the other check-boxes when it comes to deciding which kites suits you best as “Upwind” is checked for both Rise and Razor!
Thanks for all the great input. As far as the board goes I am 188 lbs and have a naish thorn 135 twin tip as well as a mako 150 x 40.
I’m still a beginner so I guess I don’t really know my style yet. I’m able to stay upwind but do not know how to kite loop or even jump well yet so my style is really undetermined. I ride lake Michigan so I do have waves to ride but they are not great .
What should be the wind range for me with an 8m or 9m and 12m?
I use a 10M RAZOR on my 130 & 150(wide) MAKO’s ... I require ~ 12-15 knots to keep upwind depending on other variables (current etc.) I have used the RISE kites since their inception & have kept my 7M for those nasty / squally sessions ... I have an 8m RAZOR that replaced my 9 RISE for those medium strength sessions ... I would think a directional board & the 15m FLITE would be the best solution for winds < 12 knots.
One thing I would add to the Razor vs Rise upwind debate, is that while the Rise has better upwind potential, it does require a defter touch to achieve this. The chance of over-sheeting and then having to crank a couple of turns to get on the plane again can lose you some ground.
The Razor has a more continuous pull and is more resistant to oversheeting so is a bit simpler to keep on the plane with. Not saying that the Rise is at all difficult to fly, just something else to consider
An 8m / 12m would be a good combo. On a twin tip I’d guess you would be going in 15knots, and still comfortable in 30knots. Personally I don’t like to explore much over 30knots in the winter, but would go in a bit more if somewhere warm like Egypt.
If you craved sub-15knots performance, I’d add a huge board to the quiver, but 8m / 12m is the combo I use (I’ve also got a 10m in there too, but often I’ll loan that out on the beach while I use the 8m or the 12m) and I never have to miss a great day on the water for want of having the right kite.
Out there somewhere, takin’ it easy…
Wow so much information on the forum and it sounds like both the rise and razor are great kites! It makes the decision tough. Is it safe to say that the rise is a better kite for big airs? / jumps larger?
I suggest you to take the rise. beciurse about your level you write I think for you the rise will be the better choise. the rise is a liottlebit easyer to handle and you will hhave for the beginn more fun.
yeah the rise is better for big air. Has more glide.
you can get up there on the razor for sure, but you come down quicker.
In terms of jumps - the Rise will give you more airtime, but it will be in a longer, flatter trajectory, as in, you’ll go up, float forever, then come down. The Razor will yank you off the water, take you up to cloud level, then bring you down quicker. Both are addictive in their own way.
Overall though, I’d say you want the Rise. I think the Rise will suit you better at this stage of your kiting.
14m Rise ‘07, 12m Flite ‘15, 10m Razor ‘10, 8m Razor ‘11, 6m Razor ‘11
129 Zen ‘09, 150 Mako ‘09, 159 Spleene Door, 6’1” Circle One
Hey, just to stir this up a bit….
....a bunch of us learned to kitesurf with kites that yanked us offf the water hard and set us back down hard. The 2012 RAZOR 10M that I have is such a sweet handling thing!!!! It is so well optimized to be a great all around kite.
The refinement the RAZOR exhibits over our C-kites of old leave me with no worries about a newbie flying this new RAZOR.
.....and it goes upwind better than my buddies C4…......he told me so…(sponsored “O” rider)
“been there, done that”.......now I kite
I’m thinking I’m going to get a 12m razor for that extra low end and an 8m rise, it seems like when the wind is high here it usually gets gusty. Does anyone else do the razor, rise transition? I’m wondering if it’s hard to jump from one to the other and if I’m better off sticking with the razor for both kites.
Hi. I am doing just that in riding a 10MRazor and then the next size down is the 6M Rise. It seems like a big size difference, but both kites can be ridden next to each other.
Here, I use 10M Rise or 10M Razor most. 6M Rise gets lots of use too. Some folks (some size bodies) would have an 8M kite in the quiver too. I’m okay with the size spread.
“been there, done that”.......now I kite
Dominator: Rise for the gusty stuff & Razor for the lighter stuff makes sense to me. I tried the 11 & 14 Rise’s as light wind kites & was much happier with my 10 Razor. (Quicker turning & more stable parked for those walks of shame )
JL, what do you weigh? I see we are both riding 150 makos. I never ride in less than 15 knots so im considering just getting a 10m razor instead of a 12. It seems like a very popular choice, at least by those posting on the forum.
I’m around 185+ ... I’ve mentioned on other threads here that winds < 15 knots a surfboard etc. would probably be more fun than a 12M. I find the 10 RAZOR generates plenty of power when sined quickly. The http://oceanrodeo.com/kiting/flite or a directional board are other options for lighter wind.
I am 185 as well. I ride a naish helix 12m right now. Have you tried out the 12m razor? Just curious as to why you and others seem to like the 10m better,is it just because of maneuverability Of the smaller kite?
It’s because the Razors have such good bottom end. a 10 Razor will match you Helix. So a 12m Razor is more like a 14m for bottom end. The advantage is of course both fly way quicker than the bigger kite they can replace and being smaller have a better top end. As 12m used to be the go to size it is natural that the 10m is encroaching
I own the 2012 12m and 10m Razor. In my last good wave session (6-8ft. faces and gusty sideshore) I started with the 12m and switched to the 10m asap. Why? I was getting frustrated using the 12m (albiet somewhat underpowered at times) in the waves. It just didn’t turn fast enough for the conditions. It was a big adjustment from using a 2011 6m in the previous 2 sessions. Anyway, the 12m Razor is good for a big kite, but the 10m is significantly faster and really seems to be the money kite in the razor line up. The 12m has more ultimate low end, but in 12-14knots working the 10m hard will get you up and planning and achieve the desired result. Personally, I really like the 10m. It has great low end but turns fast enough to be great in the waves and loops fast enough to catch you before landing those big kiteloops.
Bottom line- if you have the wind, the 10m is more fun to ride than the 12m.
So in 12-14 knots you are powered up on the 12m and could still ride your 10 ? Will you ride the 12 in lower wind than that?
I wish I could just try them out but it’s a little too cold here now and no snow either
I’ll take the 12m out in 10-12knots and the right conditions (gust, chop, current, etc.). Less than 10knots and the 12m doesn’t really cut it. The 10m in 12-14knots. Keep in mind that the board is the other 50% of the equation. On the low end, I use a floaty 6’3” surfboard (traditional foam and glass) and it makes a big difference over using a smaller board.
I hope this helps.