2007 SLE Bar Mod - Can’t punch up anymore

Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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I did the SLE bar mod to a 2006 bar. I can’t seem to be able to punch up no matter how little tension is on the center lines. I uploaded a video on YouTube

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DOaQ_lJ7YiE

I hope to get some guidance on how to make this setup work. I assumed one would be able to punch up and the 2007 stopper is not a hard stopper.


Thanks,
Paul


Total Posts: 43

Joined 2006-01-17

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Hey Buhas,
I think you misunderstand what the “stopper” is supposed to do…
It is supposed to “stop” your bar from moving up your center lines.  It is used to relieve bar pressure and is NOT meant to replace the “punch up” bar functionality.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Jeff

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Jeff Doepker
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Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Seriously now, if I wanted a hard stopper, I could have used my old stopper on the bar. What is the actual difference with the new stopper ? What about the safety of this new stopper ?


Total Posts: 315

Joined 2006-04-02

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I’ve got the stoppers on 2006 bar with the 2006 center line waiting for 2007, I’ve not had a problem with the stopper, I can rest the bar on it, but if I put any amount of upward presure on it, it’ll release up, I’m yet to take a major wipe out but I’m almost certain the the pressure of me falling and the kite pulling would slide the stopper up the center line, If any wind this weekend I’ll wipeout on purpose offshore and see what happens,  did you remove the line plug in the center line if not no way in hell the stopper will pass, it’s easy to take out I used needle nose plyers.

Jason

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Total Posts: 20

Joined 2007-01-10

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just about to fit the mod to my 07 one.  would be interested in some feedback from the or crew

dan


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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I got the center line loop replaced as it came with the kit. So there is no line plug on the new center line.

I thought the whole purpose of this stopper is to allow you to rest the bar against it momentarily (such a time would be when putting the board on your feet), but with a hard enough yank of the bar (and center line under tension) the stopper would slide up. Have you seen the video I put up ?


Total Posts: 265

Joined 2006-11-15

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:D Guys, keep in mind that there has to be tension on the depowercord to be able to push the stopper. While flying the kite I CAN push the stopper further up without any problems. test it again but now with tension on both sides. Easiest to do this is to fly the kite. If this does not work it might be because you use the first edition of the 2006 punch-up bar.


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Can some OR folks chime in on this ?

Can you or can you not slide the new stopper with a push of the bar ?

What is the point of being able to do this with your hand only ? That is the same as last stopper we had, just tighten the screw to a decent level…

I can’t push the new stopper with my 2006 bar (tension or no tension on the center lines). If one cannot do this anymore I see it as a serious misrepresentation of the SLE bar mod.


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Can someone tell me what is the diameter of the center line hole in the 2007 bar ?

Thanks.


Total Posts: 20

Joined 2007-01-10

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disagree with you sorry - dosnt do what i ASSUMED it would do :oops: .  I just read the spec sheet on the SLE bar:

‘‘easily adjust your bar stopper on the fly!  Slide into place and ride!  Specially developed to allow trim line adjustment even when under load! Also designed not to jam against the upper pulley, allowing safe, reliable leashed depower of your kite!’‘

(phew thats a lot of exclaimation marks)

does not state or imply that you can punch up thru the stopper (they have even done away with that name)

only depower that it gives (and this is stated in the blurb above) is when you release to the leash.

Am going to install mine next couple of days and then off to the canaries for a week so will have a good chance to compare.

dan


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Ok, that is fair enough, I should have read the blurb. This is my last post on the issue. I am disappointed there’s no official reply on this from OR, but so be it.

I read the blurb a few times and still find it ambiguous and in places irrelevant.

For example:

“Also designed not to jam against the upper pulley”
Who cares the stopper will not jam against the pulley ? How will that stopper ever make it that far up the center line ? You need gorilla arms to get it there as it won’t slide on its own.

“Reliable leashed depower of your kite”
Can someone please explain what this actually means ? Are we talking about pulling the emergency release, and now kite is on the leash? If not, please describe how is the depower of the kite reliable ?

‘‘easily adjust your bar stopper on the fly!”
Ok, I get this. But still it is the same as previous stopper.

“Specially developed to allow trim line adjustment even when under load!”
Ok, so I am now riding against the stopper, and I can adjust the trim line on the fly. But again, this is possible with the old stopper.

When you put this upgrade in context of a safe kite such as the One with long-throw depower, etc I find the SLE bar upgrade misleading as it loses on safety.

I find the SLE upgrade better described by the following:

-Stopper can be adjusted by hand only regardless of center-line being under load or not.
-There is no punch-up ability as in previous year SLE bar. The new stopper will not slide up the center line when pushing the bar. This again is regardless of center-line load.
-The new SLE bar stopper is designed for riding against it and it loses the long-throw depower capability.


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Total Posts: 120

Joined 2006-01-20

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John is on a road trip/demo and is normally the OR person who would respond to this.

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Total Posts: 143

Joined 2006-04-18

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I agree with Buhas.  The new stopper on a bar that relies on such a long throw for depower/safety doesn’t make sense to me. 

In my experience, the stopper wouldn’t release under load.  So if you want full depower in an emergency you must eject from the chicken loop and onto the leash or decide to ride with stopper all the way out - in which case, what is the point?

I switched back to the old punch up after just a few sessions with the new stopper and after riding yesterday in 25+ knots on my 12 M one I am glad I did. 

In fact I might be happier now with the punch up than ever - since removing the line plug, I shortened the plastic connector between the two stoppers and really tightened the screw….with a shorter connector you ride with the stopper lower (= more comfortably) but still reset it easily after depowering.


Total Posts: 51

Joined 2006-05-24

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Each to his own.I love the new stopper which does exactly what it was designed to do.If you don’t like it go back to the old system.Your are right that you can’t set the stopper too short on the one kites but when the wind is steady it doesn’t matter so much.It is easy to move it to where you want it, ie when doing transitions or jumping move it all the way out.But for going up wind and taking a rest this system is the best.On the punchup system,if you have the screw squeezing the rope tight,  the stopper will not move anyway, not allowing the safety system to work.On the new stopper it works way better in my opinion.At least OR makes it possible to have some different riding options and styles which is another reason OR is the best. Dean


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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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Whoa. I go on one lousy road trip to California and all hell breaks loose!

The new stopper is designed to do this:

1) Allow for easy adjustment of the stopper’s location
2) Allow the kite to safely de-power when the stopper is under load. This is important because other systems similar to this stopper do not allow this meaning if you have slid the stopper super low down and eject from the chicken loop the stopper will keep the kite powered. (Hence us saying it will allow for the safe and reliable depower of the kite when leashed, since you leash off the trim line on this new set-up. This is also why we needed to design it to allow the pully to still work because if it jammed the pully only half the line’s length could travel through the stopper)
3) Allow you to adjust the trim of the kite even when the stopper is under load.
4) Allow, with the kite flying and the lines under load, you to push with roughly 40 lbs of pressure up and trhough the stopper to gain extra de-power. This is essentially a friction thing and requires some force but is possible

Regarding Cam’s comments that he likes the old stopper better with the line plug removed I would caution him that this could result in the stopper to be totally lockled out if you tighten the screw too much.

Buhas, if you want a couple of the old stoppers we have a bunch in the office as we have been replacing them for others with the new stopper and as a rsult I have a bunch of the old ones. Drop .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) an email and he’ll sort you out.

I would say that the overriding majority of people I speak with like the new system better than the old, especially for the simplicity of the system.

Hope that helps!

JZ


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Total Posts: 78

Joined 2006-01-09

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Hey Buhas.  I just converted my Diablo bar and put one of the e-z stoppers on the chix. loop line.  I read your post when it first came out was curious to try it out and see if there were any problems ‘punching through’ it.  I got to try it out today for the first time and had no problems with getting it to move up when pushed with the bar.  If you get a chance to try it on the water you should do it.  Just be ready when you first try it in case it messes up but I can pretty much guarantee it won’t.  The system is simple and works really well.  Also really easy to adjust when flying.


Total Posts: 37

Joined 2006-01-18

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Going to chime in here - the new stopper is different to the old one. 

The old one releases completely with a bit of effort, which is adjustable wit the thumb screw.  Great for safety, but actually it was a bit of a pain, as it would release when you didn’t want it to sometimes.  It made riding one handed a little challenging at times.

The new stopper is a stopper.  It’ll move if you shove the bar against it hard, or if you get insanely overpowered, but in general it stays where you set it.  I use it when I want to do floaty tricks, or when the wind is steady and I don’t need a lot of depower.  Near shore, or when I’m riding near, say, a barb wire fence, I keep the stopper up high, and sheet out as needed.  I personally love the new stopper, but you have to understand how it works - it’s not a quick release like the old one. 

Make sure you leash to the trim loop or the front line, not the chicken loop, otherwise you’ll be riding with a real suicide leash - and that could be exciting if you weren’t planning on it.

Had several great days on the Rise 12 m and the Mako Pro out at Nicola lake - I’ll post some photos when I get into town and find a faster connection.  Love that board, and the new kite too.


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Johnz,
I am not doubting you have thought out the new system and folks are happy with it. But in my testing as you have seen on the video I am reluctant to try this out as I still believe the stopper will not move with the push of the bar no matter how hard I try and regardless of tension or no tension on the center lines.

Before I go further, I looked at the diameter of the center line hole in the bar and I see the reason why the stopper does not move up when pushing the bar is because the holes in the stopper are too far apart, as such when the bar is pushed up, the angle of the lines as they enter the center line hole is too steep. As such, the bar cannot push the stopper even with quite some force. Again this might be your design intent, but just trying to see if there is any difference between the 2006 and 2007 bar.

Can you please measure and tell me what the diameter of the center line hole in the 2007 bar is. Just want to make sure it is the same as my 2006 bar.

With respect to the description you gave of the new stopper:

>>>1) Allow for easy adjustment of the stopper’s location
In my case, this is only possible by hand, as opposed to the old stopper which could be pushed with the bar.

>>>2) Allow the kite to safely de-power when the stopper is under load.
Maybe I’m slow or not all there with kiting terminology, but are you talking about ejecting and having the kite leashed off the front lines ? Even so, in my case the stopper will not slide up pushed by the bar no matter how little tension is on the center lines.

>>>3) Allow you to adjust the trim of the kite even when the stopper is under load.
This I did not try, but believe it will work, unless the bar is against the stopper, in which case again I observed there is too much friction and steep angle on the lines as they enter the bar through the center line hole.

>>>4) Allow, with the kite flying and the lines under load, you to push with roughly 40 lbs of pressure up and through the stopper to gain extra de-power. This is essentially a friction thing and requires some force but is possible.
In my testing I banged as hard as I could with the bar against the stopper and there was no movement. Not sure what 40lbs of pressure is, but does not matter for me if all I can give it won’t move the stopper.

I am not advocating people use the old stopper system. I don’t want to use the old stopper either, but at this point I am not convinced the new stopper will slide under force with the bar movement in case of emergency.

John, if you can answer my question about the diameter of the center line hole on the 2007 bar, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Paul


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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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Hi Paul.

Actually, that difference in diameter of the hole vs how far apart the stopper holds the lines is exactly what prevents the bar from moving when it hits the stopper. However, you can push through it with about 40 lb of pressure. I don’t doubt that you might find this hard to believe but assure you it is possible.

In fact, I’ll try to do a video of it this afternoon if I have time and I will post it too…

Kind regards,

John


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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A video would be great, thanks.

I’m not sure why you are not answering my question about the center hole diameter on the 2007 bar. I asked it two times in my previous post.


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Total Posts: 511

Joined 2006-01-19

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Forty pounds pressure, I had no idea ... Thank you John.

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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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They are the same diameter, sorry.


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.


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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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Buhas, that’s why we’re here. I am sorry that I didn’t get on top of it sooner…business trip!

Anyway, if you are still not happy with the new stopper please just PM me with your mailing address and I’ll send you some of the old style stopper balls.

JZ


Total Posts: 19

Joined 2006-09-11

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Thanks for the offer, but I already have the old stopper.

I am dissappointed in a way with how the whole new stopper thing went down, but my fault I did not read entirely what it was supposed to do. However, even after reading the SLE bar mod description it is still not entirely clear. On the other hand, I am happy with the new leash attachment point and in any case, I have a spare center line.

I am new to kiting and perhaps in time I will understand better how the new stopper can serve me. For now I am happy with the old stopper arrangement. As CAM mentioned earlier, I might even bring back the plastic connector (shortened). This way I can have best of both worlds where I can tighten the screw and ride against the stopper, or leave it more loose and gain big-time on safety.

Again in my tests I cannot move the new stopper with the bar no matter how hard I bang on it. If you do get a chance to put up a video on how this actually works it would perhaps benefit folks in the long run.


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Total Posts: 265

Joined 2006-09-04

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I find the new stopper works well for me on both the rise bar and the conversion of my 06 one bar - the bar does move but not as much as i would like so my way around this is if you want the bar to go past the point of the stopper (which is good to rest the bar against while riding) put your index finger between the bar and in between the lines under the stopper the stopper will slide up no problems very easy especially when you are riding with your hands close to the center and visa versa when you want the stopper to hold the bar .

Cheers

Brian T
skypilotkiteboarding.com

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Total Posts: 265

Joined 2006-09-04

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Total Posts: 112

Joined 2006-05-30

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Just one session with it so far, but already I’m loving the new stopper, and don’t find it a problem to push it farther out to reduce kite-power if necessary.  I find it’s a huge improvement over the ‘06 design. With the ease at which the stopper can be moved, it’s great for powered riding against the stopper or spinning the bar without totally depowering the kite ( as on the old stopper system ).

At first I thought Buhas’ difficulty with it was caused by having the new stopper installed upside down, but after watching his Utube vid, that’s not it. Must be something else, because you can still push-up and dramatically reduce power beyond the original stopper position.

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Total Posts: 473

Joined 2006-07-15

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Just a thought but could it be because in the video the line was not under much tension?

Wish I had the EZ stopper in my One days!

Ben

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Total Posts: 7

Joined 2007-05-29

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Hi All,  I have an 06 bar with the upgrade.  Looks quite teh same as the youtube video but when i have had some spills i just let go fo the bar it pushed past the stopper without an issue.


Total Posts: 4

Joined 2007-04-16

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I have the 2007 rise bar and for me the stopper moves when you push the bar away and it slides better when the lines are tight.


Total Posts: 108

Joined 2007-01-24

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nekiter-You are supposed to contact your local dealer and he will get you the upgrade kit. Not expensive and think it is worth it.

I upgraded both of my bars and am pleased with the results. I suggest having the skypilot review open while doing the replacement…as it goes into a bit more detail.

David


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Total Posts: 349

Joined 2007-01-03

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who punches up anyway? leashing to the trim does the same thing and is just as easy to relaunch from

its great, just like the waroo stopper.. i love it as i can set a long throw, unlike my old punch up where i could have let it out another 15cm but had to trim instead, losing power for jumps. also if i want to do stuff like a deadman a i whack the stopper down so theres a really short bar throw then when i let go i dont land on my head as it depowers!

the only thing i dislike is that when i set the stopper with the trim in, and then let the trim out, the stopper moves up as well… only a little thing though so i live with it wink

also im glad the stupid plasticcy bits of tubing are gone from the bar end leaders, they were pointless and annoyed me raspberry

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Total Posts: 511

Joined 2006-01-19

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Is it really such a big deal to move the stopper after adjusting the trim ? I don’t think so !!! 8)

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Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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Forgive me for being completely daft but I need some simple explanation. No words with more than 5 letters please LOL

When leashed (that’s 7 letters 8) ) to the trim line at the cleat what happens when you eject. Does the kite flag out as the old 2006 front line system? Cant get my head around it.  :oops: I’m stupid I know

I’m really getting into spins at the moment and having the leash wrapped around the centre line really bugs me. I know the answer is to spin both ways but that doesn’t always happen on every tack. Plus I’m still learning.

thanks for the patience

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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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You can make a mod if you want. You can get a standard D ring and undo the trim line so that you can feed it up and back down through this D ring so that it sits just below the lower stopper. You can then leash off of this. This will however not de-power your kite when you eject.

The standard set-up with the leash attached to the trim line should allow your bar to spin freely. If you are talking about doing handle passes with the bar then you might want to consider leaching off the metal D ring closest to the cleat but not attached to the trim line.

If you leash off the trim line and eject the kite the kite will be pulled down by the 2 front lines.

Cheers - JZ


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Total Posts: 143

Joined 2006-04-18

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I should state for the record that I am now a convert to the new stopper system.  When I first got my new stopper the new trim lines were not available so I installed it on my old 2006 lines.  And per my previous posts -  I could not move the stopper if it was under load no matter how hard i pushed. 

I recently decided to give the stopper another go - this time with the new trim line (that has none of the nicks, fraying or stressed out appearance of my old center line).  In short with a nice new line the system works as it should - you can ride against the stopper, push through when needed, and even when you find yourself in the midst of a wipeout the stopper will slide enough to depower to kite to a safe level.

Good work OR, sorry to have ever doubted. :D


Total Posts: 446

Joined 2006-10-24

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[quote author=“Johnz”]You can make a mod if you want. You can get a standard D ring and undo the trim line so that you can feed it up and back down through this D ring so that it sits just below the lower stopper. You can then leash off of this. This will however not de-power your kite when you eject.

The standard set-up with the leash attached to the trim line should allow your bar to spin freely. If you are talking about doing handle passes with the bar then you might want to consider leaching off the metal D ring closest to the cleat but not attached to the trim line.

If you leash off the trim line and eject the kite the kite will be pulled down by the 2 front lines.

Cheers - JZ

Big thanks John.

I’m going to get the upgrade anyway. I want ride with the stopper more and more and being able to position it where I want will be perfect. I seem to like more throw in the bar than the 06 stopper gives particularly when jumping. I really depower the kite when sending.

I’ll give it a test run I think. Thankfully I’ve only ejected once on the ONE and that was an accident. My board pulled the release. But when I do I want the kite to be as dead in the water as possible. No chance of accidental relaunches etc.

Will this be the case on the two lines?

Regards

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Total Posts: 1248

Joined 2006-01-10

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If you want an absolute kill switch put a kook proof connector on the front line leash attachment point to use as a small and convenient grab handle. Flag the kite off this one point and the kite will never be able to re-launch.